"Suspiria" (Dario Argento, 1977)

[JooJoo]

Kwaidan is everything Suspiria wishes it could be - stylish and creative beyond anything you can imagine while executing effective horror tales with a solid cast.

you should watch that instead, ruffle, if you haven't already.

[MmzHrrdb]

Kwaidan is everything Suspiria wishes it could be - stylish and creative beyond anything you can imagine while executing effective horror tales with a solid cast.

I haven't seen Kwaidan in a while, though I remember it being visually impressive. Still, to claim that it's "everything Suspiria wishes it could be" is stretching. If I recall, the stories in the movie are not particularly scary or shocking or deep, but rather more like Eastern-style Twilight Zone episodes with really pretty colors. If anything, Suspiria is kind of like an extended version of a story from Kwaidan, except with more blood and Europeans. Sure, Kwaidan is older and more exotic (Asian!) and slow paced, which makes it seem to be a deeper cinematic experience to you, but it really is not.

[MmzHrrdb]

I haven't seen Suspiria so I can't comment on that comparison, but calling Kwaidan eastern-style Twilight Zone episodes is pretty laughable. All of the stories in Kwaidan are steeped in traditional Japanese folklore and come off as morality tales, not just weird freak-outs. However simple the morality may be, reducing the entire film to Twilight Zone-esque makes you sound like you don't really have a grasp on the film. Kobayashi is aiming for atmosphere, not just with the color schemes, but the use of desynchronized sound and silence, music, freeze frames, set design, painting, etc etc. It's one of the most technically competent movies I've ever seen.

[MmzHrrdb]

Sounds like another to add to my list of "must sees".

[MmzHrrdb]

I haven't seen Suspiria so I can't comment on that comparison, but calling Kwaidan eastern-style Twilight Zone episodes is pretty laughable. All of the stories in Kwaidan are steeped in traditional Japanese folklore and come off as morality tales, not just weird freak-outs. However simple the morality may be, reducing the entire film to Twilight Zone-esque makes you sound like you don't really have a grasp on the film. Kobayashi is aiming for atmosphere, not just with the color schemes, but the use of desynchronized sound and silence, music, freeze frames, set design, painting, etc etc. It's one of the most technically competent movies I've ever seen.

Actually, many Twilight Zone episodes were morality tales. It doesn't matter one bit if the stories in Kwaidan are "steeped in traditional Japanese folklore" when evaluating the quality of content. Some viewers might legitimately find Kwaidan to be slow and uninvolving, regardless of the skill behind it.

My problem with JooJoo's statement is that he implies that Kwaidan possesses all the merit, while Suspiria has none. A person could enjoy one over the other, both equally, or neither. Kwaidan is not the Alpha and Omega of atmospheric horror movies that favor style over substance. I have a grasp on Kwaidan, and from what I recall of it, enjoyed it for many of the same reasons I enjoy Suspiria. Dario Argento certainly put a lot of effort into the music, art direction, use of color, ect. in order to create a unique movie world with Suspiria. However technically competent Kwaidan may be, however, it does not mean that it will resonate with every viewer. I know I would give Kwaidan a decent rating if I were to watch it again, but I would never value it over Suspiria and no one has any obligation to do so. Movies appeal to different people for different reasons. This is not a "this movie vs. that" contest.

[JooJoo]

Most horror tales are morality tales, your comparison was just very simplistic.

You could say the same for mine, I imagine, I just didn't think they was any contest between the two in the technical merits. Still, I didn't mean to imply Suspiria had nothing, just that it is less than. I find 'less than' is a suitable label for Suspiria, if accusations of an ineffective story could be made for one, it's just as easy for another. They're both films that rely primarily in the atmosphere they create.

[JooJoo]

Kwaidan is not the Alpha and Omega of atmospheric horror movies

it should be.

wait, it isn't?

[MmzHrrdb]

Most horror tales are morality tales, your comparison was just very simplistic.

You could say the same for mine, I imagine, I just didn't think they was any contest between the two in the technical merits. Still, I didn't mean to imply Suspiria had nothing, just that it is less than. I find 'less than' is a suitable label for Suspiria, if accusations of an ineffective story could be made for one, it's just as easy for another. They're both films that rely primarily in the atmosphere they create.

I guess where we differ is that I don't really care about the objective technical merits of a movie. What I do care about is how the whole thing comes together for me as the viewer. I'm sure that the technical skill of a movie does often factor in to how I evaluate it, I just don't sit there and dissect the technique. There are some people who place a very high value on the technical aspects of a movie, so much so that other factors such as character, story, dramatic impact, ect. take a backseat. For me, I don't care how much technical wizardry is behind a movie if it is univolving or dull. A movie could be the most competently executed example of cinema ever created, but that ain't everything.

Suspiria is one of the most entertaining movies that I have ever seen. I've watched it many, many times since I first encountered it in the 90s. It may be "less than" Kwaidan in terms of artistic respectability, technical mastery, and really slow pacing, but, for me, Suspiria is "exceedingly more than" as far as being able to remind me without fail why I enjoy watching movies in the first place. It is pure entertainment, for all its flaws. At least Suspiria has a pulse.

If you get that from Kwaidan, that's great. I don't.

[JooJoo]

Most horror tales are morality tales, your comparison was just very simplistic.

You could say the same for mine, I imagine, I just didn't think they was any contest between the two in the technical merits. Still, I didn't mean to imply Suspiria had nothing, just that it is less than. I find 'less than' is a suitable label for Suspiria, if accusations of an ineffective story could be made for one, it's just as easy for another. They're both films that rely primarily in the atmosphere they create.

I guess where we differ is that I don't really care about the objective technical merits of a movie. What I do care about is how the whole thing comes together for me as the viewer. I'm sure that the technical skill of a movie does often factor in to how I evaluate it, I just don't sit there and dissect the technique.

Isn't that part of how you review things? To sit back and take an analysis on your experience with a film - thoughts on its technical merits and how the film relates to you in general on all fields.

I don't see the reason to diminish any part of a films quality, its all there for a reason.

[MmzHrrdb]

Most horror tales are morality tales, your comparison was just very simplistic.

You could say the same for mine, I imagine, I just didn't think they was any contest between the two in the technical merits. Still, I didn't mean to imply Suspiria had nothing, just that it is less than. I find 'less than' is a suitable label for Suspiria, if accusations of an ineffective story could be made for one, it's just as easy for another. They're both films that rely primarily in the atmosphere they create.

I guess where we differ is that I don't really care about the objective technical merits of a movie. What I do care about is how the whole thing comes together for me as the viewer. I'm sure that the technical skill of a movie does often factor in to how I evaluate it, I just don't sit there and dissect the technique.

Isn't that part of how you review things? To sit back and take an analysis on your experience with a film - thoughts on its technical merits and how the film relates to you in general on all fields.

I don't see the reason to diminish any part of a films quality, its all there for a reason.

I figure if a movie is put together well, then it will make an impression on the viewer one way or another. I don't need to sit there and analyze the camera angles or other such things to appreciate their overall effect on the how I respond to the movie. In fact, studying the objective technique diminishes the joy of watching a movie for me. For example, I read a few books on screenwriting recently, and now I find myself analyzing the story structure of movies I'm watching. I hate that! I don't want to know how a movie was made. I'm supposed to be escaping from reality, not figuring out how the movie goes about allowing me to escape from reality. I just want to experience the movie, and I don't necessarily need to know the nuts and bolts in order to do that.

I was standing in line at the video store a few years ago with The Bicycle Thieves. This guy noticed it and asked, "Do you like neorealism?" I responded, "Not on purpose." That's my whole movie watching philosophy right there.