PTA

Discuss your favorite actors, directors or screenwriters
ayall
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Re: PTA

Post by ayall »

I gave the film another watch and it was actually rather comical knowing the characters a bit better.
The sequence of events also made more sense.
While I rather enjoy the new discoveries, this counts as a flaw in the film... most of this stuff should be clear enough in the original viewing.

3dRevelation wrote:The way I see it PTA had 2 options for the story he wanted to present: The first one is the option he chose in that he examines the relationship between The Master and Joaquin Phoenix; The second is conceivably one in which The Master takes center stage over Phoenix and the film is more about the philosophy of the Cause.


I can see that, but I still think it's much more simple.

I think it's simply a look at the religion/cult (as it grows) from a member who ultimately decided not to follow.

I think it was rather obvious that Joaquin tried to believe and that Hoffman tried to convince/accept him.
[spoiler]Joaquin seem genuinely upset that he can't seem to "get it"; He gets extremely frustrated at his session after the jail house. He seems envious of Malek's character for being an upstanding member.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]Hoffman seems to accept Joaquin unconditionally, he doesn't seem to care much about his drinking problem. After Joaquin's outbreaks, Hoffman seems to repeatedly giving him second changes; accepts him back after the prison scene, he reaches out to him/finds him at the movie theater.[/spoiler]

I take back my comment regarding the out-of-sync / misplaced (Pulp Fiction style) scenes.
Now understanding the story a bit better, it does seem to flow chronologically.
Certain scenes still seem odd to me; [spoiler]like Hoffman signing and all the ladies being naked but none of the men. Joaquin looks like he's hiding/laying down/calmly watching; is this a dream sequence? or reality? Can't quite make to much sense of it.[/spoiler]
There are also some scenes which seems contradictory to the characters development, not sure what that's about either.

I missed this the first time but caught it the second time and really liked it, a line towards the end of the movie, at Hoffman & Joaquins last interaction;
[spoiler]If we meet again, in the next life, you will be my sworn enemy and I will show you no mercy.[/spoiler]

Stewball
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Re: PTA - Paul Thomas Anderson

Post by Stewball »

Gideon wrote:Classically idiotic and simplistic, perhaps. I find your arrogance.....


Yet you accuse me of arrogance.

..... regarding your 'explanation' of ToL amusing.


Add condescending and patronizing.

ToL is not a tough film to grasp, to understand.......

.....The most important thing within a film is the story. What the director wants to tell his audience. Without this key ingredient only visuals remain.


Which is it, the story isn't tough to understand or it's not there? I don't think you do understand it, or you did and didn't like it, so rather than rebut it you resort to name calling, irrelevancies and cheap shots. I suspect the latter.

BTW, the best movies contain an obvious story in tandem with an emotional message instead of just one or the other.

Jorg wrote:Well, everybody has their opinion.. IMHO Magnolia is pretentious and one of PTA's lesser works (rated T6) and don't even get me started about Tree of Life (T1, and I liked all of Malick's prior work).


Must have something to do with what we value in film.

Bojangles
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Re: PTA

Post by Bojangles »

SPOILERZ FOLLOW

3dRevelation wrote:Hoffman seems to accept Joaquin unconditionally ... he reaches out to him/finds him at the movie theater.

That was a dream/drunken haze. Notice how when Freddie shows up in England, no one was expecting him. Amy Adams asks, "what do you want?" and Freddie responds, "I had a dream..."

3dRevelation wrote:Certain scenes still seem odd to me; like Hoffman signing and all the ladies being naked but none of the men. Joaquin looks like he's hiding/laying down/calmly watching; is this a dream sequence? or reality? Can't quite make to much sense of it.

I believe that was a dream as well. Seems too absurd to take it any other way..

The scene that confused me the most: when the Master's daughter creeps up on Freddie's crotch. Was that another Freddie dream/fantasy?

That was one big problem of the movie for me. Too much 'what's a dream and what's real?' I don't like playing that game...

Stewball
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Re: PTA

Post by Stewball »

Bojangles wrote:That was one big problem of the movie for me. Too much 'what's a dream and what's real?' I don't like playing that game...


And even if you figured that out, then what have you got?

ayall
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Re: PTA

Post by ayall »

@ bojan - looks like you're quoting me but have 3rdrev's name in there... doesn't matter, but thought i'd point it out.

Bojangles wrote:That was a dream/drunken haze. Notice how when Freddie shows up in England, no one was expecting him. Amy Adams asks, "what do you want?" and Freddie responds, "I had a dream..."

I didn't notice that comment; interesting... i though that was real but i guess a dream makes most sense.

Bojangles wrote:I believe that was a dream as well. Seems too absurd to take it any other way..


Agree.

Bojangles wrote:The scene that confused me the most: when the Master's daughter creeps up on Freddie's crotch. Was that another Freddie dream/fantasy?

I don't think so, but it could be.
This was to me an example of where I think Freddie is really trying to give this religion/cult a chance. He looks over at Malek's character with jealousy it seems.


Bojangles wrote:That was one big problem of the movie for me. Too much 'what's a dream and what's real?' I don't like playing that game...

YES! Couldn't agree more.
Now knowing that some of the scenes that I thought were real were actually fake, it makes me question more scenes. Like the scene of Amy Adams giving Hoffman a handjob, was that real!?

I think this is a major fail for PTA in this film, the Dream Segments should have been much easier to spot.

Stewball wrote:
Bojangles wrote:That was one big problem of the movie for me. Too much 'what's a dream and what's real?' I don't like playing that game...


And even if you figured that out, then what have you got?


Well this is something I really don't like in films.
I've always joked that that final scene could be some random guy waking up and the entire film was a dream all along... pretty much negates any realistic hope of enjoyment from trying to comprehend the movie.

Bojangles
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Re: PTA

Post by Bojangles »

Yeah I got the quotes inside a quote messed up.

And just to clarify myself, the naked women bit was more of a fantasy than a dream. Freddie was imagining the women naked for his own amusement, pleasure, whatever, as I'm sure he often does.

ayall
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Re: PTA

Post by ayall »

Bojangles wrote:just to clarify myself, the naked women bit was more of a fantasy than a dream.


what's the difference between a fantasy and a dream?
Nightmare would be the alternative i guess?

Do you think Hoffman was actually performing/singing to the group and Freddie choose to picture the females naked? Or was the whole thing made up?

It's almost painful to try to dissect it at this point knowing you could pull the "it's all imaginary" card.
Now the more I think of it, the less I like it... sad turn of events.

Bojangles
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Re: PTA

Post by Bojangles »

ayall wrote:Do you think Hoffman was actually performing/singing to the group and Freddie choose to picture the females naked? .

Yeah.

ayall
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Re: PTA

Post by ayall »

Bojangles wrote:
ayall wrote:Do you think Hoffman was actually performing/singing to the group and Freddie choose to picture the females naked? .

Yeah.


Interesting... i don't know if I agree, but to each his own.
I know Hoffman was a character, but i can't imagine him putting on that musical performance.
He did lightly sing in some other scenes, but that scene was rather a large performance.

The one thing I did enjoy from that segment was Amy Adams staring down Freddie... kinda like a psychological power play; really great acting and major props to PTA for capturing that on camera.

Stewball
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Re: PTA

Post by Stewball »

ayall wrote:
Bojangles wrote:
ayall wrote:Do you think Hoffman was actually performing/singing to the group and Freddie choose to picture the females naked? .

Yeah.


Interesting... i don't know if I agree, but to each his own.
I know Hoffman was a character, but i can't imagine him putting on that musical performance.
He did lightly sing in some other scenes, but that scene was rather a large performance.

The one thing I did enjoy from that segment was Amy Adams staring down Freddie... kinda like a psychological power play; really great acting and major props to PTA for capturing that on camera.


Yeah, Amy Adams' character was the only part of the film I liked. She was saying the "WTF?" I was thinking.

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