Marilyn Monroe, Lousy Actress

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ShogunRua
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Marilyn Monroe, Lousy Actress

Post by ShogunRua »

I hadn't watched anything featuring Marilyn Monroe until the past couple of years. Thus, for the longest time, I assumed that her reputation was roughly correct; she probably wasn't a great actress, but she was pretty good, to be cast in so many classic films by legendary directors. Or at least decent.

When I actually sat down and watched a number of films featuring her, I was stunned at how awful she was. The only time Marilyn Monroe is even serviceable occurs when she is playing a silly, comic role in a film made by a great director surrounded by a bevy of outstanding talent. Outside of those very strict parameters, she is utter garbage. Hell, it might even be more specific than that. I hope she profusely thanked whatever deity she believes in for the existence of Billy Wilder.

Some Like It Hot (1959)- Wilder directed, surrounded by unbelievable comic talent. Lemmon and Curtis at the height of their powers. Monroe plays a ditzy, sleazy airhead, which, revisionism aside, is very close to what she was. She looks really beautiful, and her acting is okay.

The Seven Year Itch (1955) - Another Wilder classic, and another ditzy airhead role. This time, she is playing off the talents of Tom Ewell, who is excellent here, even if I keep wondering what would have happened if Wilder's original pick, a then-undiscovered Walter Matthau, got the role.

Monkey Business (1952) - This is where it starts breaking down. Howard Hawks was a legendary director in his own right, a master of multiple genres, but he wasn't as great at comedy as Wilder was. The talent surrounding Marilyn is still incredible; Cary Grant, Ginger Rogers, and Charles Coburn. Her role is a secondary, comic one, but she isn't as quite much of a ditz.

Monroe is utterly invisible and downright forgettable. I doubt anyone can remember a single good scene featuring her. Meanwhile, I can think of multiple fine quips and moments with Charles Coburn's character, who is also secondary.

How to Marry a Millionaire (1953) - Jean Negulesco is a far cry form Hawks or Wilder, but it's still a light comedy, and the rest of the talent is still amazing; Lauren Bacall, Betty Grable, Fred Clark, and William Powell. Marilyn isn't such a blatant airhead, but it's still a comic role.

And poor Marilyn is worse than useless here. She is utterly outshined by not just by Bacall, not just by Betty Grable, her two co-stars, but even by all the male suitors. She is dry, boring, and unfunny.

The River of No Return (1955) - Otto Preminger is a good director, but the script fucking sucks, and this is a bad movie overall. Worst though, it's a drama. And Marilyn is playing a serious, intelligent character. Oh, and she is expected to carry scenes on her own.

Needless to say, it's a fucking trainwreck. I was almost laughing during Marilyn's serious, "dramatic" scenes. They're that bad and blatantly forced and faked. And while it's a crap film, her co-star, Robert Mitchum, still turns in a fine performance. Hell, even a secondary character played by Rory Calhoun is pretty good! Marilyn, though, is one of the worst parts of the movie.

Focus-

Do you agree with my assessment of Monroe's acting abilities? (Not talking about her looks, obviously) Am I being too harsh? Was she ever serviceable in a non-comedy role where she didn't play an airhead, or wasn't directed by Wilder?

TheDenizen
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Re: Marilyn Monroe, Lousy Actress

Post by TheDenizen »

No, you're spot on.

Sexy woman, terrible actress. A young Marilyn also had a brief cameo in the otherwise excellent John Huston noir The Asphalt Jungle (despite being featured prominently on the movie poster, she's in the film for about 5 minutes). She's playing a breathy airhead (which seems to be the limit of her acting range) who's having a fling with a man old enough to be her grandfather, and she's so wooden and obviously conscious of the camera that it's embarrassing.

ribcage
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Re: Marilyn Monroe, Lousy Actress

Post by ribcage »

I've only seen her in Monkey Business and Seven Year Itch and that's all it took to decide I would rather avoid anything that contains her in a starring role.

TheDenizen wrote:(despite being featured prominently on the movie poster, she's in the film for about 5 minutes).


That annoys me almost as much as her terrible acting.

Image

Here for Monkey Business the "updated" poster totally removes the stars and slaps her on it. And, like ShogunRua said she's totally forgettable in this film. I suppose the upside is some Monroe worshippers might be fooled into watching a great Cary Grant comedy, but still!!

kyvetti
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Re: Marilyn Monroe, Lousy Actress

Post by kyvetti »

Naah, I disagree, even though I do think she was better as a comedienne and her type of comedy relies more on playing against someone and timing instead of being funny for her own sake. And she was playing a lot of ditzy airhead roles, mostly because that's the sort of thing studios chose to want from her (and being typecast was more a rule than an exception at the time).

However I'd point out that as was also usual for the studio system, one often explores different aspects of that cast type, this was also true for Marilyn.
Seven Year Itch airhead was unreal, pure male fantasy (to the extent that one can suspect she wasn't even real but an invention of Ewell character).
Gentlemen Prefer Blondes, The Prince and The Showgirl and How to Marry a Millionaire all have airheadedness as a bit of an act, in all three she is something of a mercenary. In the first one she is definitely a shrewd mercenary like no other, in the next one more playful, not really knowing what she wants but going for the ride, in the third one showing a bit more human qualities, being actually unsure of herself (though also in that one she really has least to do, the main dramatic storyline goes to Bacall and the main comedic one to Grable).
And in Some Like It Hot her airheadness does have a cracked quality in it, abused and down on her luck.

So I don't really know what does it mean to claim she was just being an airheaded ditz...

For more dramatic roles, I'd mention Niagara and especially Don't Bother to Knock as worth a look (especially the latter, since at that point the studio was still testing what to do with her so the resulting role is quite unlike her regular roles...)

ShogunRua
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Re: Marilyn Monroe, Lousy Actress

Post by ShogunRua »

kyvetti wrote:Naah, I disagree, even though I do think she was better as a comedienne and her type of comedy relies more on playing against someone and timing instead of being funny for her own sake. And she was playing a lot of ditzy airhead roles, mostly because that's the sort of thing studios chose to want from her (and being typecast was more a rule than an exception at the time).


Did you read my post in full? The hypothesis that "she was typecast" can be easily rejected by the fact that when she played outside of type, as in The River of No Return, she was fucking horrendous. Have you seen that film?

kyvetti wrote:However I'd point out that as was also usual for the studio system, one often explores different aspects of that cast type, this was also true for Marilyn.
Seven Year Itch airhead was unreal, pure male fantasy (to the extent that one can suspect she wasn't even real but an invention of Ewell character).
Gentlemen Prefer Blondes, The Prince and The Showgirl and How to Marry a Millionaire all have airheadedness as a bit of an act, in all three she is something of a mercenary. In the first one she is definitely a shrewd mercenary like no other, in the next one more playful, not really knowing what she wants but going for the ride, in the third one showing a bit more human qualities, being actually unsure of herself (though also in that one she really has least to do, the main dramatic storyline goes to Bacall and the main comedic one to Grable).
And in Some Like It Hot her airheadness does have a cracked quality in it, abused and down on her luck.


Again, did you read my first post in full? Her performances in those films range from "decent" to "very poor and forgettable", and it's mostly a function of how great her director was. Even Vin Diesel once turned in an excellent acting performance (much, much better than any performance Marilyn Monroe ever has) in Sidney Lumet's Find Me Guilty. Does that make him a great actor? Absolutely not. And borderline competence in a limited, ditzy role in a Billy Wilder comedy does not even make Marilyn Monroe a half-way decent actress.

JooJoo
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Re: Marilyn Monroe, Lousy Actress

Post by JooJoo »

She plays flawed characters better than the comedies I've seen her in. Although, I don't really mind her in Monkey Business or Some Like it Hot.

The Misfits & Don't Bother to Knock are the two flicks I think of first with Monroe. They both have her playing a damaged, neurotic mess of a character which comes across much more convincing. Most likely cause it's closer to what she was known to have been like in real life.
Last edited by JooJoo on Sun Sep 06, 2015 11:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Pickpocket
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Re: Marilyn Monroe, Lousy Actress

Post by Pickpocket »

I don't think she's remembered for her acting abilities, she's remembered for being hot as fuck and fucking a president. And now currently she's an inspiration for fat chicks because they are somehow deluded into thinking she was overweight when she was far from it.

I've only seen 4 movies she was in and she never bugged me enough to warrant this type of response. In fact, the Seven Year Itch, a terrible movie, was saved somewhat by her because at least you could stare at a hot piece of ass while you drudged through the monotony that was that film.

This is what Hollywood does, it churns out beautiful women for all of our enjoyment. You could replace this with any current actress who is gorgeous and it would be tough to argue with. People like looking at hot bitches and once a woman hits the wall she is finished. Look at Anne Hathaway bitching about getting old: http://entertainthis.usatoday.com/2015/ ... od-ageism/ Marilyn's legend is much greater because she never had to deal with this because she died at age 36. It's why we remember her so fondly. Because we never had to see her morph into a goblin like the thousands of others before her

ShogunRua
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Re: Marilyn Monroe, Lousy Actress

Post by ShogunRua »

Pickpocket wrote:I don't think she's remembered for her acting abilities, she's remembered for being hot as fuck and fucking a president. And now currently she's an inspiration for fat chicks because they are somehow deluded into thinking she was overweight when she was far from it.


Don't forget being an inspiration for vapid morons who want to seem chic and sophisticated or horrid cunts who use "if you can't handle me at my worst than you don't deserve me at my best" as an excuse for disgusting, self-centered behavior.

Pickpocket wrote:This is what Hollywood does, it churns out beautiful women for all of our enjoyment.


Two notes on this;

1. Not so much anymore. I would take any Hollywood beauty of the 50s (nevermind the European stars of the 60s and 70s, wow!) over almost any Hollywood starlet today.

2. Of course their main attraction might have been beauty, but at least some of the other "hot pieces of ass" could act. I don't even like her all that much, but Scarlett Johansson is attractive and light-years better as an actress than Marilyn was.

Pickpocket
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Re: Marilyn Monroe, Lousy Actress

Post by Pickpocket »

ShogunRua wrote:
Pickpocket wrote:I don't think she's remembered for her acting abilities, she's remembered for being hot as fuck and fucking a president. And now currently she's an inspiration for fat chicks because they are somehow deluded into thinking she was overweight when she was far from it.


Don't forget being an inspiration for vapid morons who want to seem chic and sophisticated or horrid cunts who use "if you can't handle me at my worst than you don't deserve me at my best" as an excuse for disgusting, self-centered behavior.

lol, and she was only able to say crap like this because no one ever told her to shut the hell up because everyone wanted to have sex with her. I've seen buttergolems say this shit in real life and people just laugh at them.


ShogunRua wrote:1. Not so much anymore. I would take any Hollywood beauty of the 50s (nevermind the European stars of the 60s and 70s, wow!) over almost any Hollywood starlet today.

I'm with you there

ShogunRua wrote:2. Of course their main attraction might have been beauty, but at least some of the other "hot pieces of ass" could act. I don't even like her all that much, but Scarlett Johansson is attractive and light-years better as an actress than Marilyn was.

I agree but let's not forget that she's just 30 years old. Let's see where she is at in 10 years when she's well past the wall and can no longer play the love interest of Joseph Gordon Levitt or whoever the trendy young male actor is. You'll see a shift sooner rather than later when she goes from a love interest to playing the love interests mom

Stewball
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Re: Marilyn Monroe, Lousy Actress

Post by Stewball »

Maybe she was, but then a large majority of actors/resses were lousy back then. Most are painful to watch, but at least Marilyn was pretty to look at. I mean Joan Crawford....gah! The worst were Susan Hayward, Olivia de Havilland, and just about all of the cowboys (except the Clayton Moore, he was great), off the top of my head. I could go waaay deeper into this but it's late.

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