General Discussion : Psychological movies and/or twists

[Stewball]

(500) Days of Summer
2001: A Space Odyssey
Detachment (a recent movie and my current favorite best ending)
Devil's Advocate
Dr. Strangelove
Fight Club
Master & Commander
Stranger Than Fiction
Sucker Punch

Detachment?? Ok, I am in love with the movie, but the ending is probably the weakest point in the film for me, it's so predictable (and a little over the top).
Haha! I completely forgot that Stranger Than Fiction had such a good ending!

Funny you should mention those two films. STF being about an author who was known for her endings, and in her current effort, she started it off with "Little did he know", which could have started off [i]Detachment.

I think its fair to say that Kaye isn't a sentimentalist, so either he's shifting, or there's something else going on here. I of course, am advocating the latter. I think he's a true talent and one who is proud of this effort, so what could be the problem. I think you've inadvertently(?) touched on it using the key phrase, "over the top". I think what he may be saying that there's no such thing as over the top love, in fact the greater the unrestrained commitment, the greater the love, and we need more of it. I really don't think it's predictable. In fact, the movie had been such a downer I'd decided it was going to end that way, I just wasn't sure.

And how much greater an obstacle could one have to one's love than being sent away. And that 'ott' message was greatly accentuated by the downer events that preceded the ending, especially, especially, the abduction scene. And.....Gayle was perfectly cast for the role, especially the abduction scene and that climactic moment which had and needed no lines. I was glad I was a dark theater.

It's funny how things work out. When I first went to see Detachment, little did I know......

[Stewball]

Baby Fish.....

I just went to your page and noticed you'd just put up a 3 for The Devil's Advocate. Mind if I ask.....? seein's how I may have had something to do with you viewing it.

Nice avatar btw. That's what they mean by tickling the ivories?

[ShogunRua]

Well, now you're just arguing degrees.

Not arguing, man Just asking. I didn't find any inconsistencies in the movies - at least nothing that left a bad taste at the end of the movie. That's why I asked you to find out what you thought.

Again, "no bad taste at the end" and "no inconsistencies" are two entirely separate qualities. "The Prestige" had a good ending and was a great movie, despite also being very illogical in many places, ending included.

Till the end, I assumed that his wife was put off by the fact that his work endangered their family and lives.

His work as a psychologist?! That's absurd.

Plus the mental trauma caused by the (till then assumed non-fatal) shooting may have caused her to react badly. Hence she wasn't talking to him. I enjoyed the movie even before the twist happened - it wouldn't have been a T10 without the twist but I still would have found it good enough for it to be a T7-T8 movie. Again, not arguing - I am just explaining how I felt while watching the movie - everybody reacts differently to the same thing.

So not having your wife touch or talk to you for 5+ years is a normal state of affairs, and wouldn't clue you in that something is amiss? Not to mention that it doesn't explain what else Willis's characters has been doing as a psychologist for all those years, and how he was "hired" to work with Cole.

The fact that it was Nikola Tesla, one of the greatest engineers of his time, made it realistic enough for me.
I am ready for forgive it as artistic license.

Heh, I love Tesla too, but that only makes it worse. If there was a movie about Einstein where he creates a giant mecha that shoots lasers, missiles, and is capable of interstellar travel, I wouldn't condone that as "Einstein was one of the greatest physicists ever, that's realistic enough for me!".

I would think it's a really fucking stupid deus ex machina plot device from someone who understands nothing of science.

Sorry, I don't get what you are saying here.

What I'm saying is that one of the twins could have been present for all of the relationship with his wife and one could have been present for all of the relationship with the assistant. Problem solved!

I loved both the movies - at the end of Prestige, I didn't find anything unexplained.

I also loved both movies. And while it's true that the Prestige didn't leave anything unexplained, it left several plot threads explained very poorly.

So don't take any thing I ask to be arguing - mostly I am asking because I want you (or anyone else) to elaborate or explain what they wrote. I may argue in political subthreads Stewball regularly introduces in the movie discussions here but not in the main thread itself.

Well, luckily for you, I don't mind arguments one bit!

[Baby Fish]

I think its fair to say that Kaye isn't a sentimentalist, so either he's shifting, or there's something else going on here.

Are you being sarcastic or am I misinterpreting what you're saying? I've only seen American History X, Lake of Fire, and of course Detachment, but (even in Lake of Fire) he had some kind of emotional sentiment.

And how much greater an obstacle could one have to one's love than being sent away. And that 'ott' message was greatly accentuated by the downer events that preceded the ending, especially, especially, the abduction scene. And.....Gayle was perfectly cast for the role, especially the abduction scene and that climactic moment which had and needed no lines. I was glad I was a dark theater.

I never really felt comfortable with their relationship until the very end. He (Henry Barthes) came off as this manly, brooding, emotionless hero, and she the hooker with a heart of gold (imo). I don't mean to sound cynical (because I really really liked this film), but for me it felt a little shallow...in places.
The part I found over the top, was pretty much Meredith's whole character. Just because she was fat, artsy and her father didn't love her, she was obviously going to be bullied at school and have no friends what so ever. And the frowny cake thing nearly made me laugh, even though I was close to crying by that point, I'm not sure if that's good or bad...

I just went to your page and noticed you'd just put up a 3 for The Devil's Advocate. Mind if I ask.....? seein's how I may have had something to do with you viewing it.

Of course, you were the soul reason for me watching it! Erm...I rated it 3 because the ending reminded me of every shitty 90's movie I ever watched at Christmas, and even though the film was decent before that point, I was too pissed off to rate it any higher. I might reconsider my rating when I've cooled off.

Nice avatar btw. That's what they mean by tickling the ivories?

Smooth. Real smoth...
Also, my apologise for the late reply.

[by Devol]

Affliction
The Conversation
Diabolique
The close-up of Kevin Spacey's *******SPOILER?****** limp changing to a walk at the end of "Usual Suspects" wasn't bad.
The big "reveal" at the end of Last Seduction - about buddy having hooked up in the past with a tranny - was weak.
In Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer - the suitcase getting dumped on the side of the road. Sure - she wasn't keeping the best company, but I guess it was the sudden unceremoniousness of the ending that made me go "whoa".
Donald Sutherland's wail at the end of Invasion of Body Snatchers
the final sin in Seven

[mwgerb]

Donald Sutherland's wail at the end of Invasion of Body Snatchers

Oh God, I forgot that. Yeah, that's way up there on my list of twists.

[Stewball]

I never really felt comfortable with their relationship until the very end. He (Henry Barthes) came off as this manly, brooding, emotionless hero, and she the hooker with a heart of gold (imo). I don't mean to sound cynical (because I really really liked this film), but for me it felt a little shallow...in places.

***spoilers follow***

I didn't feel comfortable either, after all, he was keeping her at arm's length for several reasons--she's a hooker/damaged goods, she took advantage of his generosity (bringing in a John to his apartment), he's a teacher with a hooker in his apartment, she was pushy, and most of all he had her taken away. And what was he feeling for her, friendship, fatherly love or sexual attraction.

Some amazing facts about Sami Gayle (Erica), she was only 15 when it, her first theatrical effort, was filmed, she's a regular on the TV series "Blue Bloods", she's home schooled (common I suppose for celebrities), supposed to be an excellent singer and dancer, and a nationally ranked debater. Some people make me sick.....and love them at the same time.

The part I found over the top, was pretty much Meredith's whole character. Just because she was fat, artsy and her father didn't love her, she was obviously going to be bullied at school and have no friends what so ever. And the frowny cake thing nearly made me laugh, even though I was close to crying by that point, I'm not sure if that's good or bad...

The irony in the underlined part there is important. A piece of insider information that's really helpful is the fact that the girl who played Meridith is the director's, Tony Kaye's, daughter who he'd abandoned for a time, along with her mother, when she was young. That little fact is so complex it blows my mind, but it explains the angst she captured so perfectly. The really sad part is Barthes wasn't able to connect with her, primarily because of the social taboos surrounding teacher/student relationships, especially "touching" a student--and her being fat made her less endearing. The touching incident is what prompted him to have Erica taken away--but then Meridith's suicide, and his guilt over his letting his fear and her not being as attractive keep him from helping her more, prompted him to bring Erica back, leading up to that no-holds-bared ultra-climactic scene. That's the scene I thought you meant was over the top, which it was, but very righteously so. Again, Erica was the crucial character in the film and the one who was cast first.

Of course, you were the soul reason for me watching it! Erm...I rated it 3 because the ending reminded me of every shitty 90's movie I ever watched at Christmas, and even though the film was decent before that point, I was too pissed off to rate it any higher. I might reconsider my rating when I've cooled off.

***more spoilers***

It might interest you to know that yours was my exact reaction the first time I saw it. "What....suicide!!" It just didn't fit. It bugged me for weeks until I realized it was one of the greatest moral lessons I've ever come across in a movie. Vanity is not the Devil's favorite sin, it's the ONLY sin, and that's what he was killing, his vanity--so that he could do the right thing in the trial of the pedophile he was defending. It was after all an imaginary thought/daydream sequence he'd gone through from the point when he placed his wedding ring on the shelf in the washroom, until he "woke up" again looking at it after going through all of that, knowing what he had to do.