Shogu, this might be the topic that we disagree on the most... i have the exact opposite feelings as you do towards Batman and the films.
ShogunRua wrote:Both Burton's Batman and Nolan's Batman, regardless of what you think of either, are mass-produced, popcorn blockbusters. They're simple-minded films meant to appeal primarily to kids.
Yes, they're both "mass-produced, popcorn blockbusters," but what Nolan does is the following...
He doesn't take the easy-out Micheal Bay Transformers
route; of putting together an awful plot, awful script, and having no care for the acting/story beyond the CGI Action... Nolan goes all-in, and makes every aspect of the block-buster spectacular... that's why i credit his attention to detail.
I'm certain Nolan could have put half the care into his Batman Films and still succeeded in making "mass-produced, popcorn blockbusters" Batman Films, but he goes a step further and this is more then evident in his work.
ShogunRua wrote:The reason so many people like the Burton films, and certainly prefer them to the crap that was "Batman Begins", is because they were funnier. They didn't take themselves seriously. They played the plot with a wink and a nod.
Exactly, Burton filmed his Batman like Micheal Bay filmed his Transformers... he probably didn't even have scripts going in. "They played the plot with a wink and a nod," and this is more then noticeable... i've seen better performances in high school drama dress rehearsals.
Having amazing actors like Jack Nicholson around and not fully utilizing their talent is the shame that Burton brought to his Batman movies. Nolan squeezed all the talent from his crew, and this too is noticeable (and again a credit to Nolan's superior directing abilities).
ShogunRua wrote: Comparing any Batman film, by Burton or Nolan, to a piece of great art like "Catcher in the Rye" is plain ridiculous. You're like someone seriously and un-ironically comparing Bugs Bunny cartoons to works by Bergman or Truffaut. The only conclusions I can draw are that you don't like reading very much, nor do you watch many classic films.
My prior analogy (romance novels vs. catcher in the rye), isn't meant to compare Burtons Batman to a Romance Novel or to say Nolans Batman is a Catcher in the Rye, but the difference between
Nolans films and Burtons Films.
But you are right, I don't like reading (now) very much(beyond emails, forums and on-line content) nor have i watched many "classic films."
I'll be honest; I took several film course in college, and while I enjoyed many of the "classic" films, it's hard to judge them with hindsight.
It's like you preferring a 1980's dial-up 2400bts modem as opposed to the now cable/dsl internet simply because it was "one of the first" or "classic." While it's nice to examine the history and see how things were done in "the past," it's nearly impossible to prefer "classic" to "modern." This works for technology, which means it also works for movies (though films also have a "Story" and "Art" which are exemptions to my analogy/point and is the "wild card" factor that allows some classics to live on (many of Kubricks contain this factor)).
ShogunRua wrote:They're pure entertainment pictures. They have little in the way of ideas and intelligence, and are all riddled with dozens of basic plot holes.
This is true, they both are for entertainment and both have plot holes (as the Batman story has). However i disagree about the "ideas and intelligence" in Nolans films.
I think Nolan did a great job in dissecting the batman/joker characters and psychological methodologies which he specifically brought to the screen in TDK... there are some GREAT lines, such as my favorite;
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order, and everything becomes chaos. I'm an agent of chaos. Oh, and you know the thing about chaos? It's fair!
As I have stated, as a Batman Fan, I did really enjoy Burtons Batman and even Batman Returns (80 Tier 7).
I just think that Nolans Batman is superior in every aspect of movies and film making.
Any why I wasn't surprised that many people on this Forum (and in this Thread) liked Burton over Nolan Batman, that's because of the "Nostalgic" Factor.
Watching the two movies (first time) back-to-back, and picking a preference will undoubtedly yield Nolan as superior (and maybe because it's newer(per my CGI/Technology disclaimer)).
Looking at something as simple as the IMDB rating, it's obvious the the mass's agree with my logic.
The Dark Knight - 8.9
Batman Begins - 8.3
Batman - 7.6
Batman Return - 6.9