General Discussion : Movies vs Books

[ShogunRua]

I did read the entire post. Maybe you should just stop being such a pompous ass.

Then why did you only respond to the part that hurt your dainty e-feelings? See, I don't think you actually want to read other peoples' opinions on the matter, or be given recommendations. (Notice how you completely ignored posts by both TheDenizen and 3DRevelations, and most of what I wrote)

The way you wrote that initial post, you're proud to dislike reading. Maybe it's the culture I come from, but if I told any of my relatives that I didn't read and disliked it, they would like upon with me with shame in their eyes, as a complete moron.

Seriously what was the point of that initial attack?

What's the point of telling an obese man that he is fat and out of shape? And is that an "attack" or just "telling the truth"?

But what should I expect your last point is just as pretentious and short sighted. I'm trying to grow and not be like that but you just can except that some people aren't naturally drawn towards literature.

No one is "naturally drawn towards literature" the same way that no one comes out of their mother's womb knowing how to ride a bike or drive a car. Like anything worthwhile, it takes practice, hard work, and dedication.

The difference being that there are way more benefits to reading a lot than there are from operating either a bike or car.

[stuie299]

I did read the entire post. Maybe you should just stop being such a pompous ass.

Then why did you only respond to the part that hurt your dainty e-feelings? See, I don't think you actually want to read other peoples' opinions on the matter, or be given recommendations. (Notice how you completely ignored posts by both TheDenizen and 3DRevelations, and most of what I wrote)

The way you wrote that initial post, you're proud to dislike reading. Maybe it's the culture I come from, but if I told any of my relatives that I didn't read and disliked it, they would like upon with me with shame in their eyes, as a complete moron.

Seriously what was the point of that initial attack?

What's the point of telling an obese man that he is fat and out of shape? And is that an "attack" or just "telling the truth"?

But what should I expect your last point is just as pretentious and short sighted. I'm trying to grow and not be like that but you just can except that some people aren't naturally drawn towards literature.

No one is "naturally drawn towards literature" the same way that no one comes out of their mother's womb knowing how to ride a bike or drive a car. Like anything worthwhile, it takes practice, hard work, and dedication.

The difference being that there are way more benefits to reading a lot than there are from operating either a bike or car.

Well thanks Shogun. It appears the entire point of this thread has been misconstrued. I step up and take the blame for my initial post not conveying what I thought it did.I didn't realize that I had to respond to every post. My responses to you were more of a rash emotionally charged decision.

I'm obviously an ignorant twat who needed to be set straight. I'm oh so sorry I didn't take your fist post as the magnum opus it clearly is. I shall now repent my heathen ways. You have clearly open my eyes in the most unimaginable way possible. my only wish is to live up to your greatness.

[SirStuckey]

I'm a fan of reading. I used to never read unassigned books when I was in school because I didn't like reading two things at once, but once I graduated I really started to get into it. I do like movies more, but when a book is great it's truly a wonderful experience.

Two things that got me back into reading:
1) Find an author/genre you like. The Dark Tower series pulled me back into reading after having not done it for a long time and after reading many more of Stephen King's books I have found I really enjoy horror stories (despite horror being one of my least favorite movie genres). Now I use King as a palate cleanser. I never go more than 3 or 4 books without reading another one of his.
2) Read nonfiction about topics you like. There is any number of (auto)biographies about rock stars, athletes, comedians, and historical figures. Hell you could read nearly endless non-fiction about actors and directors and supplement your love of films.

I don't have the most refined tastes in books and I certainly read a lot of stuff that is throw away or "trash" or whatever but I will also challenge myself from time to time. I read Infinite Jest and liked it. I can't say I fully absorbed it all but it was definitely a rewarding/unique experience for me.

Here are a few books I've loved and would recommend to you if you have any interest in reading:
1. Dark Tower series - An easy series to get into because the first one is the shortest (I think) and in my opinion one of the better ones. If you like it you can continue the series and if not you didn't waste much time reading it. Extra satisfying if you end up getting into King because a lot of his stories have themes that go along with the Dark Tower (and there is a comic series as well). I think The Stand is King's best book, but it's long which doesn't seem like your bag.
2. One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest - My favorite book. I try to read it once a year.
3. High Fidelity - Nick Hornby is a funny author and his books are easy to read and relate to.
4. Ender's Game - Great Sci-Fi
5. Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy - Funny stuff
6. Harry Potter - Very fast paced, entertaining, and easy to read.
7. 1984 - Dystopia at it's finest
8. Selected Stories of Philip K. Dick - A bunch of short stories, many of which have been made into popular sci-fi movies. Short stories can be a good reintroduction back into reading because you can knock them out while reading at the cliche times (on the can, right before bed)
9. Rebel Without a Crew - Cool book by Robert Rodriguez on the process he went through to get his first movie made.
10. Me Talk Pretty One Day - David Sedaris is hilarious, and the story based on the book's title had me in tears I was laughing so hard.

Also you could look into audio books. You can buy them online for pretty cheap I think and listen to them while driving, working out, or mowing the lawn or whenever.

[Svengali]

What are the appeals of reading? Frankly, the medium is superior to movies.

1. Books are the most intellectual of medium, since you can convey more complex and interesting ideas through the written word than you can solely through images. Argue with this all you like, but there's a reason complex mathematical theorems are written down in symbols, not in photo images. (Unless those images have writing on them!)

The most intelligent films I have ever seen ("Wild Strawberries", "Network") have the same level of intellectual content to them as a good book, but still much less than a great novel.

2. Books, if you read quickly, are both faster-paced and more exciting than virtually any movie.

If you read at a rate of 2 pages per minute (reasonable, not even especially fast), that's 240 pages in 2 hours. Most 2-hour films have a 110-page script with relatively few words on each page.

You can simply devour way more content in the same period of time.

I think that's a bit harsh on the movies, on cinema as a form of art as well. I don't know if you or how many here that have read Tarkovsky's book Sculpting in Time but he deals with the subject literature vs. art quite interestingly. I can't think anything that I disagree with him on, he - like Bergman I believe means that cinema as opposed to literature and much like music touches our senses directly whilst literature has to use the words as tools. Although while Bergman and Haneke believe that film is closest related to music because of its rhythmic nature Tarkovsky compares it to the Haiku poems - the way that they tackle things as they are, complete simplicity and sublime observation.

For your first point, allow me to quote Bergman: "Film has dream, film has music. No form of art goes beyond ordinary consciousness as film does, straight to our emotions, deep into the twilight room of the soul. "

Tarkovsky writes in his book that when the first film of the train arriving to the station was created it wasn't just a technical marvel - a new aesthetic principle was born.

He also writes that he doesn't believe that cinema has had any geniuses that can compare to the geniuses of literature such Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, Dante, Goethe, Mann, Hesse etc. As you state, even the greatest works still stand small against the greatest novels. But cinema is still very young and as he also states is still seeking for its own language - it has had the misfortune of people using it to make money because of its nature. But I think it'd be wrong to say that the greatest of films cannot compare to the greatest of books.

A movie is more than just the script you know, it's a bit of an odd argument. I believe that a short film - just take Un Chien Andalou for example - it can be much more powerful and enigmatic than a long book.

I read some, I often feel that I'm not that good of a reader and often it takes quite some time for me to get through a book - I guess that's depending on what kind of book it is. I'm currently reading James Joyce's The Portrait of The Artist as a Young Man - I'm reading it in its original language and not having English has my native tongue it gets quite hard at times, I'm still enjoying it but it's not exactly like I can't put it away from me - I'm more like reading it casually. Before that I had Solzhenitsyn's The First Circle which took me a long, long time to finish but I enjoyed it very much.

[stuie299]

I'm a fan of reading. I used to never read unassigned books when I was in school because I didn't like reading two things at once, but once I graduated I really started to get into it. I do like movies more, but when a book is great it's truly a wonderful experience.

Two things that got me back into reading:
1) Find an author/genre you like. The Dark Tower series pulled me back into reading after having not done it for a long time and after reading many more of Stephen King's books I have found I really enjoy horror stories (despite horror being one of my least favorite movie genres). Now I use King as a palate cleanser. I never go more than 3 or 4 books without reading another one of his.
2) Read nonfiction about topics you like. There is any number of (auto)biographies about rock stars, athletes, comedians, and historical figures. Hell you could read nearly endless non-fiction about actors and directors and supplement your love of films.

I don't have the most refined tastes in books and I certainly read a lot of stuff that is throw away or "trash" or whatever but I will also challenge myself from time to time. I read Infinite Jest and liked it. I can't say I fully absorbed it all but it was definitely a rewarding/unique experience for me.

Here are a few books I've loved and would recommend to you if you have any interest in reading:
1. Dark Tower series - An easy series to get into because the first one is the shortest (I think) and in my opinion one of the better ones. If you like it you can continue the series and if not you didn't waste much time reading it. Extra satisfying if you end up getting into King because a lot of his stories have themes that go along with the Dark Tower (and there is a comic series as well). I think The Stand is King's best book, but it's long which doesn't seem like your bag.
2. One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest - My favorite book. I try to read it once a year.
3. High Fidelity - Nick Hornby is a funny author and his books are easy to read and relate to.
4. Ender's Game - Great Sci-Fi
5. Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy - Funny stuff
6. Harry Potter - Very fast paced, entertaining, and easy to read.
7. 1984 - Dystopia at it's finest
8. Selected Stories of Philip K. Dick - A bunch of short stories, many of which have been made into popular sci-fi movies. Short stories can be a good reintroduction back into reading because you can knock them out while reading at the cliche times (on the can, right before bed)
9. Rebel Without a Crew - Cool book by Robert Rodriguez on the process he went through to get his first movie made.
10. Me Talk Pretty One Day - David Sedaris is hilarious, and the story based on the book's title had me in tears I was laughing so hard.

Also you could look into audio books. You can buy them online for pretty cheap I think and listen to them while driving, working out, or mowing the lawn or whenever.

Thanks for the helpful advice. I've already read and enjoyed Harry Potter (even though I hate the movies). 1984 was good. Would had been great but I didn't care for the ending. I've been meaning to read the Hitch Hikers Guide To The Galaxy for some time now. Though at the moment (well since summer break started) I've been reading The Revolutionist by Robert Little. I'm just a slow reader and I think I'll enjoy reading more once I get faster at it. I used to read a lot during middle school but in High School and College I've stopped reading anything that wasn't assigned to me. I think part of the reason why I stopped reading was due to a horrible introduction to adult literature. With the exception of 1984 I really haven't care for most of the books I've been assigned to read. Stuff like Jane Eyre, The Invisible Man, The Adventures of Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn, The Cather in the Rye, and Alas Babylon to name a few.

Here are some other books that I have enjoyed:

1. Anything by Markus Zusak.
2. Numb by Sean Ferrel
3. Water for Elephants
4. Shakey (Neil Young biography)
5. The Ridiculous Race by Steve Hely & Vali Chandraskaran

I was recommended The Hunger Games but didn't really care enough to finish the last two books (This was way before the movie).

[ShogunRua]

For your first point, allow me to quote Bergman: "Film has dream, film has music. No form of art goes beyond ordinary consciousness as film does, straight to our emotions, deep into the twilight room of the soul. "

Far be it for to disagree with a (true) artistic genius like Bergman, but books do the exact same thing!

Murakami's "Norwegian Wood" or "Dance Dance Dance" spoke to my inner dreams, emotions, and soul more than any movie, even a masterpiece like Bergman's "Wild Strawberries" did. And I expect nothing less from Bergman; he is one of the greatest artists of the 20th century, attaining a level virtually no other film director has.

Of course he considers his chosen profession with an almost religious reverence; that's the type of dedication and mindset he needed to become so great!

Also, I'm not selling movies short here; they're wonderful and I love the art form. But they're not quite as awesome as books!

Tarkovsky writes in his book that when the first film of the train arriving to the station was created it wasn't just a technical marvel - a new aesthetic principle was born.

He also writes that he doesn't believe that cinema has had any geniuses that can compare to the geniuses of literature such Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, Dante, Goethe, Mann, Hesse etc.

I will disagree with the venerable Tarkovsky on that one point...I think films have had many geniuses vastly superior to Herman Hesse.

I read some, I often feel that I'm not that good of a reader and often it takes quite some time for me to get through a book - I guess that's depending on what kind of book it is. I'm currently reading James Joyce's The Portrait of The Artist as a Young Man - I'm reading it in its original language and not having English has my native tongue it gets quite hard at times,

Native language or not, if you're reading Joyce, it's no surprise you find the novel slow and cumbersome!

In the interests of full disclosure, I should note that I find James Joyce to be an unbelievably pretentious twat who wrote a few decent short stories in "Dubliners", then proceeded to write increasingly more insane shit, culminating in "Finnegan's Wake", a 600 page book with neither plot, characters, nor sentences with an actual meaning, and half of its words made up.

Needless to stay, many liberal arts majors proudly proclaim it a masterpiece.

That aside, even some authors who I love can have difficult styles that aren't easy to read much of in one go. Probably the best example is Faulkner, although one of my favorite authors ever, Conrad, can also be hard to get into.

I would definitely branch out and read more authors. You will find someone like Fitzgerald a very light and breezy read, for instance.

[movieboy]

7. 1984 - Dystopia at it's finest

1984 was good.

If you liked 1984, you should also try
- A Brave, New World - Aldous Huxley
- Anthem - Ayn Rand

[W00DY]

I think music is one of the main reasons why I've never been able to get the same pleasure from a book.

Listen to music, especially music witout lyrics, while reading. In my experience it's an extremely good way of getting into classical/EDM etc.

it takes practice and a certain level to enjoy.

There's no better advice for getting into reading than this. There's no use in starting with difficult reading material but if you work your way to it it should be a joy. Begin with relatively straightforward narratives that may interest you and go from there. I recommend authors like Steinbeck, Orwell, Kerouac, Fitzgerald, Arthur Conan Doyle etc.

In the interests of full disclosure, I should note that I find James Joyce to be an unbelievably pretentious twat who wrote a few decent short stories in "Dubliners", then proceeded to write increasingly more insane shit, culminating in "Finnegan's Wake", a 600 page book with neither plot, characters, nor sentences with an actual meaning, and half of its words made up.

I haven't had the courage to read more than a few pages of 'Finnegan's Wake' but I have to disagree that Joyce's novels are pretentious. 'A Portrait...' and 'Ulysses' are masterpieces and 'Dubliners' is much more than "a few decent short stories". Joyce's ability to create realistic characters is, IMO, unmatched by his contemporaries. He attempted to find a true way to convey life, admittedly an unrealistic goal, in the novel form, and succeeded to a greater extent than most. He took realism and created something much more realistic. His influence is still all over literature today. I firmly believe that people like Beckett, Pinter, Albee and Rushdie, to name a few, would never have visualised their works without reading Joyce. To paraphrase some, he is the highest form of modernist literature.

[stuie299]

7. 1984 - Dystopia at it's finest

1984 was good.

If you liked 1984, you should also try
- A Brave, New World - Aldous Huxley
- Anthem - Ayn Rand

I'll try A Brave, New World. I've already read Anthem and didn't really care for it.

[CMonster]

I have to agree with SirStuckey that one of the most important things is to at the very least start off with something that interests you even if it isn't particularly amazing writing. Personally, one of the quickest and easiest books I've ever read turned out to be one of my favorites. If you aren't easily offended (especially by sexism) its a pretty funny book called The Average American Male by Chad Kultgen, I think I finished it in 2 days and I wasn't plowing through it like I do some books.

I really enjoy fantasy and would highly recommend A Song of Ice and Fire by George R.R. Martin. It's the series that HBO based A Game of Thrones off of and I would say is significantly better than the show primarily because of the great combination of depth in detail with a great balance of action/dialogue. I started reading them years ago and this is probably my favorite series ever. I've read them all at least twice. I would also recommend The Name of the Wind and A Wise Man's Fear by Patrick Rothfuss. They are the first to books in a trilogy and the third isn't out yet. Not only are they very engaging but Rothfuss also does a lot of subtle and interesting things with how he writes (compared to most of the fantasy genre).

I would absolutely second reading A Brave New World and 1984, both would probably end up falling into my top five favorite books.

I've also read some Steinbeck and very much enjoyed it.

I've only read one book by Cormac McCarthy (The Road) and really liked it. I plan on reading more by him.

As for non-fiction it really depends on what you are into. For science people I have to recommend anything by Sagan as a must. Also if you are just trying to get into reading, stuff by A. J. Jacobs like A Year of Living Biblically and The Know-It-All are pretty interesting, funny, and not to difficult. If you like B-movies, If Chins Could Kill: Confessions of a B-Movie Actor is the autobiography of Bruce Campbell.

In high school I actually read a lot of mediocre adult fiction by some big authors like John Grisham, James Patterson, James Rollins, and Dan Brown. Not much real quality but are pretty entertaining and mostly play out like a movie so they may be a good place to start. I also found the concept to The Brethren by Crisham particularly hilarious.

On my list of stuff I haven't read but have pretty much only heard good things about: the Russian novelists other people have listed, American Gods, The Power of One, and stuff by Bret Easton Ellis.

I also have to note that I learned how to read off Calvin and Hobbes and the books of the strips are still worth checking out on occasion.

As for movies vs. books, I would say it really depends on your mood and how much time you have. I don't think picking one really means much. It's like if you had a cookie and a brownie, somebody could probably make a pretty convincing case why one is better than the other, but at the end of the day both kick a lot of ass.

Also Shogun, you only call an obese person fat and out of shape to make a joke or hurt his feelings, and you certainly don't start with the equivalent of saying, "Hey muffintop, be careful if you try to drop a few pounds because I'm not sure if Fukushima is fully repaired yet."