12 Years a Slave

[Stewball]

off topic

This is the topic of the year for me. As a non-American I never understood some sentiments and the attitude about the American way of voting and politics (and your own perceptions of it). This is all very enlightening, please keep arguing!

What's not to understand. The principle of vote buying goes back to Greece.

[Ag0stoMesmer]

off topic
This is the topic of the year for me. As a non-American I never understood some sentiments and the attitude about the American way of voting and politics (and your own perceptions of it). This is all very enlightening, please keep arguing!

Agreed. Quite endearing that they believe voting -in a Plutocracy- is worth it at all

[td888]

What's not to understand. The principle of vote buying goes back to Greece.

I agree that the principle of vote buying goes back a long time.

I am just amazed at all the arguments and sentiments expressed in this topic. It's really an eye-opener for me. I've never seen these kind of arguments in any of the European countries I lived in (and various elections I was allowed to vote in).

I am certainly not saying Europe is better or something, but it's definitely different. I have never seen anybody here bring up the argument that an unidentified person should be able to vote. I suspect if you do that, people will laugh in your face.

If getting an ID in the US is really a problem for certain groups of people, I think you got much bigger problems than whether or not they are allowed to vote.

[ShogunRua]

I am just amazed at all the arguments and sentiments expressed in this topic. It's really an eye-opener for me.

I imagine it would be. A normal, sane person could never come to the conclusion that requiring photo ID to vote would be anything except obvious.

If getting an ID in the US is really a problem for certain groups of people,

It's not. Believe me. Not only is it free for the poor, but California even passed a law saying illegal immigrants can obtain driver's licenses. So literally everyone here, citizen and non-citizen, has photo ID.

Pretending otherwise was just a deliberate fabrication on the part of BionicNinjas.

[Suture Self]

Not every state is as reasonable as California. Also, it's not a fabrication, it's reality. Read about it. I would link you to articles, but you probably consider them to be conspiracy theories from the liebral media.

[Suture Self]

Most non-Republican legislators (as well as a lot of Republicans) tend to agree that a photo ID isn't necessary, so feel to free to call me an insane mentally retarded moron, but at least I'm not the only one.

Here's a good article that questions the necessity of voter photo ID laws. It concerns one of the judges who first framed/upheld the voter photo ID law: http://www.thenation.com/blog/176641/ju ... t-it-wrong

But you probably won't read it, unfortunately.

Here's a quick excerpt:

In his new book, Reflections on Judging, Judge Posner writes, “I plead guilty to having written the majority opinion (affirmed by the Supreme Court) upholding Indiana’s requirement that prospective voters prove their identity with a photo ID—a law now widely regarded as a means of voter suppression rather than fraud prevention.”

Judge Posner, an appointee of former President Ronald Reagan, is not stopping there.

In an interview, Mike Sacks asked: “Do you think that the court got this one wrong?”

“Yes,” replied Judge Posner. “Absolutely. And the problem is that there hadn’t been that much activity with voter identification…. [The Seventh Circuit judges] weren’t really given strong indications that requiring additional voter identification would actually disfranchise people [who are] entitled to vote.”

[Suture Self]

What's not to understand. The principle of vote buying goes back to Greece.

If getting an ID in the US is really a problem for certain groups of people, I think you got much bigger problems than whether or not they are allowed to vote.

The American Civil Liberties Union explains that “more than 21 million Americans do not have government-issued photo identification; a disproportionate number of these Americans are low-income, racial and ethnic minorities, and elderly.”

I agree, this is a huge problem. A systemic one - unless you think these 21 million low-income people are simply just lazy idiots who won't get off their ass and get an ID. But I think that's a lazy diagnosis. It's much more than that.

[Bojangles]

I opened the thread at page 7. I just want to say that I look forward to going back and reading through the rest of the thread to see how we got to this point. Randy Newman made good music. Please carry on.

[hellboy76]

Since this was a race heavy topic ( I think , at some point) , we have to have Sail Away, a cheery sell job told from the point of a slave trader to potential slaves.

Shogun - apologies for misunderstanding what was being talked about.I shouldn't skim, although I am happy I did now because the KKK act turned out to be interesting reading.

Either way, I am a liberal, I have no issues with requiring photo ID's to vote, and I also agree wholeheartedly that the issue is being pushed to keep those poor minorities from voting (regardless of what their reason for not having a photo ID is).

I can't wait for the microchips to be inserted in all of us so we can just be scanned and voter fraud would involve cutting off someone's arm and attaching it to yourself.

[ShogunRua]

Not every state is as reasonable as California. Also, it's not a fabrication, it's reality. Read about it. I would link you to articles, but you probably consider them to be conspiracy theories from the liebral media.

Please enlighten me; what is either difficult or expensive about obtaining a driver's license or passport in Florida? Do you have either or both? How much money and effort did each take?

Also, why are you fine with presenting photo identification when shopping for groceries and paying by credit card, but not when deciding the supreme ruler of the most powerful nation on Earth?

Either way, I am a liberal, I have no issues with requiring photo ID's to vote, and I also agree wholeheartedly that the issue is being pushed to keep those poor minorities from voting (regardless of what their reason for not having a photo ID is).

Did you mean to write "is not being pushed"? Otherwise, that sentence is a bit incongruous.

I can't wait for the microchips to be inserted in all of us so we can just be scanned and voter fraud would involve cutting off someone's arm and attaching it to yourself.

Heh, they actually have microchips for pets, but unfortunately, they don't help when the furry animal gets lost!

Anyways, photo identification is like the most basic, least intrusive thing imaginable. Do you know that as part of a basic California government program, where there was little doubt about my identity, and where I wasn't on a military base or anything like that, I had to get not only photographed, but had fingerprints taken of every single digit?

I was totally fine with it, too. Again, being a libertarian doesn't mean not giving a fuck about basic security measures, or abandoning any and all common sense, as FarCryss seems to be an example of.