The Great Beauty

[JooJoo]

Hollywood and its offshoots, take a well deserved rap for the great amount of crap that's out, but it's also the most likely source for genuine technical and thematic innovation.

Technical yes. Thematic no.

Examples foreign language thematic masterpieces please.

Army of Shadows (1969)
The Passion of Joan of Arc (1928)
Winter Light (1962)

Ali: Fear Eats the Soul (1974)
Edvard Munch (1974)
Fanny and Alexander (1982)
Harakiri (1962)
Hausu (1977)
Irreversible (2002)
Love ad Anarchy (1973)
Ordet (1955)
Oslo, August 31st (2011)
The Passion of Anna (1969)
Rashomon (1950)
Red Beard (1965)
Scenes From a Marriage (1973)
Sonatine (1993)
Swept Away (1974)
Treeless Mountain (2008)
Underground (1995)
Wild Strawberries (1957)
Woman in the Dunes (1964)
Yi Yi (2000)

Alice (1988)
An Autumn Afternoon (1998)
Autumn Sonata (1978)
La Belle Noiseuse (1991)
Berlin Alexanderplatz (1980)
Bicycle Thieves (1948)
Das Boot (1981)
Children of Paradise (1945)
Cria Cuervos (1976)
Cries and Whispers (1972)
Day of Wrath (1943)
Divorce Italian Style (1961)
La Dolce Vita (1960)
Early Summer (1951)
The Earrings of Madame De... (1953)
The Enigma of Kaspar Hauser (1974)
Even Dwarfs Started Small (1970)
The Face of Another (1966)
Faust (1926)
Fear of Fear (1975)
Fitzcarraldo (1982)
Fox and His Friends (1975)
Gertrud (1964)
Grand Illusion (1937)
Hiroshima mon amour (1959)
I Was Born, But... (1932)
The Illusionist (2010)
Ivan the Terrible, Part I & II (1944) (1949)
Kawaita hana (1964)
Kwaidan (1964)
L'Avventura (1960)
Lake Tahoe (2008)
Last Year at Marienbad (1961)
Late Autumn (1960)
A Man Escaped (1956)
The Man with a Movie Camera (1929)
Martha (1974)
Millennium Mambo (2001)
Muriel ou Le temps d'un retour (1963)
Mon Oncle D'Amerique (1980)
My Night at Maud's (1969)
Napoleon (1927)
La Notte (1961)
Le Nuits de la pleine lune (1984)
Oasis (2002)
Once Upon a Time in Anatolia (2011)
Onibaba (1964)
Onl Yesterday (1991)
The Passenger (1975)
The Past (2013)
Pather Panchali (1955)
Persona (1966)
Le Plaisir (1952)
Qiu Ju da guan si (1992)
Il Ferroviere (1956)
Ran (1985)
The Red and the White (1967)
The Rules of the Game (1939)
Le Samourai (1967)
Sans Soleil (1983)
The Seduction of Mimi (1972)
A Separation (2011)
Seven Samurai (1954)
The Seventh Seal (1957)
Smiles of a Summer Night (1955)
Spirit of the Beehive (1973)
Still Life (2006)
La Strada (1954)
Stroszek (1977)
Summer Hours (2008)
The Testament of Dr. Mabuse (1933)
Tokyo Story (1953)
Touchez pas au grisbi (1954)
The Tree of Wooden Clogs (1978)
The Triplets of Belleville (2003)
Umberto D. (1952)
Vampyr (1932)
The Vertical Ray of the Sun (2000)
When Father Was Away on Business (1985)
Why Does Herr R. Run Amok (1970)
Yojimbo (1961)

The 8 Diagram Pole Fighter (1984)
8 1/2 (1963)
A Tale of Springtime (1990)
Accattone (1961)
Adua and Her Friends (1960)
Aguirre: The Wrath of God (1972)
Ai no kawaki (1966)
Love Exposure (2008)
Amen (2002)
Andrei Rublev (1966)
Les Anges du Peche (1943)
Aparajito (1956)
The Ascent (1977)
Ashes and Diamonds (1958)
Au hasaard Balthazar (1966)
Au revoir les enfants (1987)
An Autumn Afternoon (1962)
Bellissima (1951)
Il Bidone (1955)
Big Deal on Madonna Street (1958)
The Bitter Tears of Petra von Kant (1972)
Black Cat, White Cat (1998)
The Boss of it All (2006)
Branded to Kill (1967)
Breathless (1960)
The Burmese Harp (1956)
The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari (1920)
Cache (2005)
Cafe Lumiere (2003)
Cartesius (1974)
Casque d'or (1952)
The Castle of Cagliostro (1979)
Chanto tsutaeru (2009)
Chloe in the Afternoon (1972)
Claire's Knee (1970)
Close-Up (1990)
Cobra Verde (1987)
The Conformist (1970)
Le Corbeau (1943)
The Cow (1969)
The Cranes Are Flying (1957)
Dead or Alive (1999)
Death in Venice (1971)
Despair (1978)
Devi (1960)
The Discreet Charm of the Bourgeoisie (1972)
Distant (2002)
Dogtooth (2010)
Dolls (2002)
Le Doulos (1962)
Eat Drink Man Woman (1994)
L'Eclisse (1962)
The Element of Crime (1984)
Fantastic Planet (1973)
Fellini's Casanova (1976)
Le Feu follet (1963)
Flight of the Red Balloon (2008)
Funny Games (1997)
Gate of Flesh (1964)
Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence (2004)
Glue (2006)
Gomorra (2008)
A Good Marriage (1982)
The Gospel According to St. Matthew (1964)
Gozu (2003)
Grave of the Fireflies (1988)
Il Grido (1957)
Happy Together (1997)
Higanbana (1958)
High and Low (1963)
I Fidanzati (1963)
I Stand Alone (1998)
I Vitelloni (1953)
I'm a Cyborg, But That's OK (2006)
The Idiots (1998)
Import/Export (2007)
In a Year of 13 Moons (1978)
In Between Days (2006)
In the Mood for Love (2000)
Iron Monkey (1993)
The Isle (2000)
Je t'aime, Je t'aime (1968)
Jules and Jim (1962)
Juliet of the Spirits (1965)
Just Before Nightfall (1971)
Three Resurrected Drunkards (1968)
Kagumusha (1980)
Kanal (1957)
Koshikei (1968)
The Place Promised In Our Early Days (2004)
Kuroi ame (1989)
Kuroneko (1968)
L'ami de mon amie (1987)
L'Argent (1983)
L'Enfant (2005)
L'Innocente (1976)
Lacombe Lucien (1974)
The Last Laugh (1924)
Last Life in the Universe (2003)
Late Spring (1949)
Life and Nothing More... (1991)
Lola (1982)
Love and Honor (2006)
Loves of a Blonde (1965)
M (1931)
The Magic Flute (1975)
The Magician (1958)
Mahanagar (1963)
Mamma Roma (1962)
A Married Woman (1964)
Masculin, Feminin (1966)
Memories (1995)
Metropolis (1927)
Millennium Actress (2001)
Mother Kusters Goes to Heaven (1975)
Murmur of the Heart (1971)
My Neighbor Totoro (1988)
Nazarin (1959)
Nights of Cabiria (1957)
Nobody Knows (2004)
Nosferatu (1922)
Nosferatu the Vampyre (1979)
Nostalghia (1983)
Le Notti Bianche (1957)
A Night in Nude (1993)
Ossessione (1943)
Ototo (2010)
Perfect Blue (1998)
Pickpocket (1959)
Pleasures of the Flesh (1965)
Il Posto (1961)
The Profound Desire of the Gods (1968)
The Puppetmaster (1993)
Pusher (1996)
Pusher III: I'm the Angel of the Death (2005)
Raise the Red Lantern (1991)
The Return (2003)
Revanche (2008)
Rififi (1955)
The Road Home (1999)
Salo, or the 120 Days of Sodom (1975)
Samurai Rebellion (1967)
Sanjuro (1962)
Sawdust and Tinsel (1953)
The Scent of Green Papaya (1993)
Secrets of Women (1952)
Seduced and Abandoned (1964)
Senso (1954)
Seven Beauties (1975)
Shame (1968)
Shanghai Blues (1984)
Solaris (1972)
Early Spring (1956)
Stalker (1979)
The Stationmaster's Wife (1977)
Stellet Licht (2007)
Still Walking (2008)
Story of a Prostitute (1965)
Summer (1986)
A Summer's Tale (1996)
The Sword of Doom (1966)
Te doy mis ojos (2003)
Ten (2002)
Throne of Blood (1957)
Through a Glass Darkly (1961)
Time of the Gypsies (1988)
Tokyo Twilight (1957)
Tokyo Chorus (1931)
Tokyo Drifter (1966)
Tropical Malady (2004)
Tulpan (2008)
The Unfaithful Wife (1969)
Unknown Pleasures (2002)
Va Savoir (2001)
Violent Cop (1989)
Viridiana (1961)
Waltz With Bashir (2008)
What Time is it There? (2001)
The Wild Child (1970)
Wings (1966)
A Woman is a Woman (1961)
Wooden Crosses (1932)
World on a Wire (1973)
The Young Girls of Rochefort (1967)
Young Torless (1966)
Youth of the Beast (1963)
Z (1969)

and many, many, many more.

[Stewball]

Army of Shadows (1969)
The Passion of Joan of Arc (1928)
Winter Light (1962)

Ali: Fear Eats the Soul (1974)
Edvard Munch (1974)
Fanny and Alexander (1982)
Harakiri (1962)
Hausu (1977)
Irreversible (2002)
Love ad Anarchy (1973)
Ordet (1955)
Oslo, August 31st (2011)
The Passion of Anna (1969)
Rashomon (1950)
Red Beard (1965)
Scenes From a Marriage (1973)
Sonatine (1993)
Swept Away (1974)
Treeless Mountain (2008)
Underground (1995)
Wild Strawberries (1957)
Woman in the Dunes (1964)
Yi Yi (2000)

Alice (1988)
An Autumn Afternoon (1998)
Autumn Sonata (1978)
La Belle Noiseuse (1991)
Berlin Alexanderplatz (1980)
Bicycle Thieves (1948)
Das Boot (1981)
Children of Paradise (1945)
Cria Cuervos (1976)
Cries and Whispers (1972)
Day of Wrath (1943)
Divorce Italian Style (1961)
La Dolce Vita (1960)
Early Summer (1951)
The Earrings of Madame De... (1953)
The Enigma of Kaspar Hauser (1974)
Even Dwarfs Started Small (1970)
The Face of Another (1966)
Faust (1926)
Fear of Fear (1975)
Fitzcarraldo (1982)
Fox and His Friends (1975)
Gertrud (1964)
Grand Illusion (1937)
Hiroshima mon amour (1959)
I Was Born, But... (1932)
The Illusionist (2010)
Ivan the Terrible, Part I & II (1944) (1949)
Kawaita hana (1964)
Kwaidan (1964)
L'Avventura (1960)
Lake Tahoe (2008)
Last Year at Marienbad (1961)
Late Autumn (1960)
A Man Escaped (1956)
The Man with a Movie Camera (1929)
Martha (1974)
Millennium Mambo (2001)
Muriel ou Le temps d'un retour (1963)
Mon Oncle D'Amerique (1980)
My Night at Maud's (1969)
Napoleon (1927)
La Notte (1961)
Le Nuits de la pleine lune (1984)
Oasis (2002)
Once Upon a Time in Anatolia (2011)
Onibaba (1964)
Onl Yesterday (1991)
The Passenger (1975)
The Past (2013)
Pather Panchali (1955)
Persona (1966)
Le Plaisir (1952)
Qiu Ju da guan si (1992)
Il Ferroviere (1956)
Ran (1985)
The Red and the White (1967)
The Rules of the Game (1939)
Le Samourai (1967)
Sans Soleil (1983)
The Seduction of Mimi (1972)
A Separation (2011)
Seven Samurai (1954)
The Seventh Seal (1957)
Smiles of a Summer Night (1955)
Spirit of the Beehive (1973)
Still Life (2006)
La Strada (1954)
Stroszek (1977)
Summer Hours (2008)
The Testament of Dr. Mabuse (1933)
Tokyo Story (1953)
Touchez pas au grisbi (1954)
The Tree of Wooden Clogs (1978)
The Triplets of Belleville (2003)
Umberto D. (1952)
Vampyr (1932)
The Vertical Ray of the Sun (2000)
When Father Was Away on Business (1985)
Why Does Herr R. Run Amok (1970)
Yojimbo (1961)

The 8 Diagram Pole Fighter (1984)
8 1/2 (1963)
A Tale of Springtime (1990)
Accattone (1961)
Adua and Her Friends (1960)
Aguirre: The Wrath of God (1972)
Ai no kawaki (1966)
Love Exposure (2008)
Amen (2002)
Andrei Rublev (1966)
Les Anges du Peche (1943)
Aparajito (1956)
The Ascent (1977)
Ashes and Diamonds (1958)
Au hasaard Balthazar (1966)
Au revoir les enfants (1987)
An Autumn Afternoon (1962)
Bellissima (1951)
Il Bidone (1955)
Big Deal on Madonna Street (1958)
The Bitter Tears of Petra von Kant (1972)
Black Cat, White Cat (1998)
The Boss of it All (2006)
Branded to Kill (1967)
Breathless (1960)
The Burmese Harp (1956)
The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari (1920)
Cache (2005)
Cafe Lumiere (2003)
Cartesius (1974)
Casque d'or (1952)
The Castle of Cagliostro (1979)
Chanto tsutaeru (2009)
Chloe in the Afternoon (1972)
Claire's Knee (1970)
Close-Up (1990)
Cobra Verde (1987)
The Conformist (1970)
Le Corbeau (1943)
The Cow (1969)
The Cranes Are Flying (1957)
Dead or Alive (1999)
Death in Venice (1971)
Despair (1978)
Devi (1960)
The Discreet Charm of the Bourgeoisie (1972)
Distant (2002)
Dogtooth (2010)
Dolls (2002)
Le Doulos (1962)
Eat Drink Man Woman (1994)
L'Eclisse (1962)
The Element of Crime (1984)
Fantastic Planet (1973)
Fellini's Casanova (1976)
Le Feu follet (1963)
Flight of the Red Balloon (2008)
Funny Games (1997)
Gate of Flesh (1964)
Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence (2004)
Glue (2006)
Gomorra (2008)
A Good Marriage (1982)
The Gospel According to St. Matthew (1964)
Gozu (2003)
Grave of the Fireflies (1988)
Il Grido (1957)
Happy Together (1997)
Higanbana (1958)
High and Low (1963)
I Fidanzati (1963)
I Stand Alone (1998)
I Vitelloni (1953)
I'm a Cyborg, But That's OK (2006)
The Idiots (1998)
Import/Export (2007)
In a Year of 13 Moons (1978)
In Between Days (2006)
In the Mood for Love (2000)
Iron Monkey (1993)
The Isle (2000)
Je t'aime, Je t'aime (1968)
Jules and Jim (1962)
Juliet of the Spirits (1965)
Just Before Nightfall (1971)
Three Resurrected Drunkards (1968)
Kagumusha (1980)
Kanal (1957)
Koshikei (1968)
The Place Promised In Our Early Days (2004)
Kuroi ame (1989)
Kuroneko (1968)
L'ami de mon amie (1987)
L'Argent (1983)
L'Enfant (2005)
L'Innocente (1976)
Lacombe Lucien (1974)
The Last Laugh (1924)
Last Life in the Universe (2003)
Late Spring (1949)
Life and Nothing More... (1991)
Lola (1982)
Love and Honor (2006)
Loves of a Blonde (1965)
M (1931)
The Magic Flute (1975)
The Magician (1958)
Mahanagar (1963)
Mamma Roma (1962)
A Married Woman (1964)
Masculin, Feminin (1966)
Memories (1995)
Metropolis (1927)
Millennium Actress (2001)
Mother Kusters Goes to Heaven (1975)
Murmur of the Heart (1971)
My Neighbor Totoro (1988)
Nazarin (1959)
Nights of Cabiria (1957)
Nobody Knows (2004)
Nosferatu (1922)
Nosferatu the Vampyre (1979)
Nostalghia (1983)
Le Notti Bianche (1957)
A Night in Nude (1993)
Ossessione (1943)
Ototo (2010)
Perfect Blue (1998)
Pickpocket (1959)
Pleasures of the Flesh (1965)
Il Posto (1961)
The Profound Desire of the Gods (1968)
The Puppetmaster (1993)
Pusher (1996)
Pusher III: I'm the Angel of the Death (2005)
Raise the Red Lantern (1991)
The Return (2003)
Revanche (2008)
Rififi (1955)
The Road Home (1999)
Salo, or the 120 Days of Sodom (1975)
Samurai Rebellion (1967)
Sanjuro (1962)
Sawdust and Tinsel (1953)
The Scent of Green Papaya (1993)
Secrets of Women (1952)
Seduced and Abandoned (1964)
Senso (1954)
Seven Beauties (1975)
Shame (1968)
Shanghai Blues (1984)
Solaris (1972)
Early Spring (1956)
Stalker (1979)
The Stationmaster's Wife (1977)
Stellet Licht (2007)
Still Walking (2008)
Story of a Prostitute (1965)
Summer (1986)
A Summer's Tale (1996)
The Sword of Doom (1966)
Te doy mis ojos (2003)
Ten (2002)
Throne of Blood (1957)
Through a Glass Darkly (1961)
Time of the Gypsies (1988)
Tokyo Twilight (1957)
Tokyo Chorus (1931)
Tokyo Drifter (1966)
Tropical Malady (2004)
Tulpan (2008)
The Unfaithful Wife (1969)
Unknown Pleasures (2002)
Va Savoir (2001)
Violent Cop (1989)
Viridiana (1961)
Waltz With Bashir (2008)
What Time is it There? (2001)
The Wild Child (1970)
Wings (1966)
A Woman is a Woman (1961)
Wooden Crosses (1932)
World on a Wire (1973)
The Young Girls of Rochefort (1967)
Young Torless (1966)
Youth of the Beast (1963)
Z (1969)

and many, many, many more.

Thanks for reminding me why I so rarely watch them. Of the ones I have seen, on the list (appx. 15), I think they can all be placed fairly high up on the pretentiousness scale, showing mainly at cinema "appreciation" screenings in liberal colleges--so they can learn what's "important". Of the rest, it's amazing, given that I spend a lot of time discussing movies, that I haven't even heard of almost any of them, even here until now. And for the record, I saw 10 foreign language films in 2013.

On the list, 8 1/2 tops it for pretension, which then sets the bar up for other pretenders to follow, like The Great Beauty, but in color. And it's funny that some of my recent top rated foreign language films aren't on your list, e.g. The Flowers of War, Mao's Last Dancer (100), Slumdog Millionaire, and The Angle's Share. I wonder why. Could it be that our tastes differ? But I'm the one being accused of prejudice against foreign films, not foreign language films. Which brings up another pretty question: Are British films foreign?

[Vdecraim]

I think The Great Beauty is a terrific film. Not an imitation of Fellini, but an interpretation, which is a feat on its own. Perhaps I have a weakness for Italian extravaganza.

As for the whole discussion whether the European 'authors' are creative geniuses or pretentious bastards: the distinction between ambition and pretention is very narrow, and it's up to the viewer to make their choice. I absolutely adore Otto e Mezzo. Because it's a beautiful and creative exploration of director's block. It also says a lot about the medium: the struggle to find honesty, which is a pain every artist will encounter at some point. If people call it pretentious, I feel sad for them. But as I said: the distinction is narrow. If you say it's pretentious, then it's pretentious. If I consider it a masterpiece, then it's a masterpiece. In our different worlds of film appreciation at least. We should just love film in all its forms. Hollywood blockbuster or European Arthouse, each world has something to enjoy. Picking on each other opinions is useless.

[Stewball]

I think The Great Beauty is a terrific film. Not an imitation of Fellini, but an interpretation, which is a feat on its own. Perhaps I have a weakness for Italian extravaganza.

Italian extravaganza, an excellent summation, and I applaud your terming your attraction to it as a weakness--which we all have.

Because it's a beautiful and creative exploration of director's block. It also says a lot about the medium: the struggle to find honesty.

But isn't exploring director's block by making a movie about it the height of narcissism....and pretension, the struggle to be dishonest?

If you say it's pretentious, then it's pretentious. If I consider it a masterpiece, then it's a masterpiece

.

But pretension is a statement of the master's attitude toward his own work. Is there anything worse than a dishonest artist. (Well yeah, but youknowwhatImean.) If Fellini had been an innocent, that would have put a whole new light on 8 1/2, which would probably have meant no light at all, or another story with a title referring to something other than his previous films.

In our different worlds of film appreciation at least. We should just love film in all its forms. Hollywood blockbuster or European Arthouse, each world has something to enjoy. Picking on each other opinions is useless.

All it's forms? Maybe. But certainly not all it's examples, say, Hitler filming Schindler's List as an SS training film.

[Vdecraim]

But isn't exploring director's block by making a movie about it the height of narcissism....and pretension, the struggle to be dishonest?

I guess you can put it that way. But still, that sounds like an interesting film that I'd like to see. Self-indulgence is not necessarily a bad thing. I like most of Lynch's films and I adored Synecdoche, New York. It's just personal taste. For you, that may put you off the film. I enjoy wandering around in an author's mind, instead of looking at his concrete work.

[ShogunRua]

But isn't exploring director's block by making a movie about it the height of narcissism....and pretension, the struggle to be dishonest?

Is making a personal movie about a subject the director knows about "narcissistic"? Maybe, but who the hell cares? Is it "pretentious"? No, not necessarily. Look up the meaning of that word, Stewie.

[Stewball]

But isn't exploring director's block by making a movie about it the height of narcissism....and pretension, the struggle to be dishonest?

Is making a personal movie about a subject the director knows about "narcissistic"?

Yes, if the movie is about showing oneself in a pretentious, egocentric light as opposed to an honest take. It's the opposite of being self-deprecating, which I dislike as well except when it's done for the humor.

Maybe, but who the hell cares? Is it "pretentious"? No, not necessarily. Look up the meaning of that word, Stewie.

MerriamWebster.com (which I keep at the top of my bookmarks and use often):
pre·ten·sion
noun \pri-ˈten(t)-shən\

: the unpleasant quality of people who think of themselves as more impressive, successful, or important than they really are

: a desire to do something or a claim to be something that is impressive or important

The etymology goes to the root verb to pretend.

[ShogunRua]

But isn't exploring director's block by making a movie about it the height of narcissism....and pretension, the struggle to be dishonest?

Is making a personal movie about a subject the director knows about "narcissistic"?

Yes, if the movie is about showing oneself in a pretentious, egocentric light as opposed to an honest take. It's the opposite of being self-deprecating, which I dislike as well except when it's done for the humor.

Stewie, this is childish. When I ask "why is this narcissistic/egocentric and pretentious?!", your response is "because it's egocentric and pretentious!".

You're better than that. Also, why do you think Fellini's films are not "honest"?!

Maybe, but who the hell cares? Is it "pretentious"? No, not necessarily. Look up the meaning of that word, Stewie.

MerriamWebster.com (which I keep at the top of my bookmarks and use often):
pre·ten·sion
noun \pri-ˈten(t)-shən\

: the unpleasant quality of people who think of themselves as more impressive, successful, or important than they really are

: a desire to do something or a claim to be something that is impressive or important

The etymology goes to the root verb to pretend.

Very good. Now please attempt to explain how this applies to a Fellini film.

[Stewball]

You were the one who told me to look up the meaning of the word. Now you wanna move the goalposts?