How quickly are TCIs generated

[dardan]

As a consequence of (1), the button does not remove any users in my TCI list below the threshold (not having enough films in common with me). As explained above, none of my 150 best TCIs meet the threshold.

This is odd. I once updated the minimum amount of films required in common from 10% to 25% and it removed a ton of my TCI's (whereas lowering the requirement didn't put them back), while spamming that button both added and removed them.

The 50 TCIs are not selected from users meeting your threshold but from ALL users. I just hit the 50 TCI button once and only 1 user had enough films in common, the other 49 didn't. And the 1 user was outside my 1000 best TCIs. You see that it won't work that way.

Again, this is odd. I had the exact opposite: only two users didn't meet the threshold. Could this problem (and perhaps others) stem from your very low amount of rankings?

http://imgur.com/ULiTBwL

http://imgur.com/wqXEWAr

http://imgur.com/2VOTXvd

Beginning to think that the site was made expecting people to have 250+ rankings. While the PSI's in my case might not be the most accurate when I add a few rankings, they are still very accurate. I still think the best thing to do is to import your rankings, spam the regen button for a minute or two and wait a couple weeks until the majority of the remainder that did not get updated gets fixed through regular use.

The easiest solution for this is for Criticker to standardize a 40% threshold for those with 0-100 rankings (30% 100-200 etc.), because 1) TCI's based on 5 films in common aren't that accurate anyway. Most rankings aren't valid: e.g. the person most closely matching my taste might have missed something I saw in a film and gave it a far lower ranking, was in a different mood, ranked it from memory or didn't like it as much as they thought they did. These things result in a false 1-2 tier difference that has massive significance in a 6 film in common system. A TCI of 1.5 with 500 films in common has much more predictive power than a TCI of 1.2 with 20 films in common, but this isn't taken into account in the current situation. Also, the pool of users available if you have few rankings is still huge. 2) Getting a 40% threshold would to a large extent solve the fluctuation problem. If they apparently can't afford to allow refreshes required for a 10% based system, then they shouldn't maintain a 10% system. One contentious ranking on a 6 film in common basis flips your entire TCI network around.

[livelove]

As a consequence of (1), the button does not remove any users in my TCI list below the threshold (not having enough films in common with me). As explained above, none of my 150 best TCIs meet the threshold.

This is odd. I once updated the minimum amount of films required in common from 10% to 25% and it removed a ton of my TCI's (whereas lowering the requirement didn't put them back), while spamming that button both added and removed them.

You can easily verify if it works by following the procedure I outlined on page 1 of this thread: Set the threshold to 50% and see if TCIs below 50% are removed or not. I bet you they are not. Mine aren't.

Everyone can try this out.

The 50 TCIs are not selected from users meeting your threshold but from ALL users. I just hit the 50 TCI button once and only 1 user had enough films in common, the other 49 didn't. And the 1 user was outside my 1000 best TCIs. You see that it won't work that way.

Again, this is odd. I had the exact opposite: only 2 users didn't meet the threshold.

http://imgur.com/ULiTBwL
http://imgur.com/wqXEWAr
http://imgur.com/2VOTXvd

No, in your last screenshot alone, there are 7 users below your threshold of 174 films.

Besides, the exact number is very much besides the point and of no relevance at all. It does not matter whether 2, 7 or 49 out of the 50 generated TCIs are below the threshold, as ALL these cases show that users are selected from all users, NOT from the pool of users meeting your threshold as was claimed by mpowell (link on page 1).

Could this problem (and perhaps others) stem from your very low amount of rankings?

Sorry, but that is a weak excuse for the site not working.
I know, you just want to help, so don't take it the wrong way.
I'm just saying ...

Beginning to think that the site was made expecting people to have 250+ rankings.

I don't know how best to explain it, but there is a huge difference between saying
(A) that there are advantages of having more rankings (e.g. your PSIs become more "accurate" over time compared to when you have say just 10 films, which are not representative enough for your taste, therefore distorting your PSIs due to the small sample size)
... and ...
(B) that core functionality, which is supposed to work regardless of the number of rankings, malfunctions.

I agree with and don't have a problem with (A), but we should not confuse the two, by saying (A) is better, therfore (B) does not work.
It's like saying "the messaging system is not reliable for users who have <100 films ranked". That's BS, the messaging system must work for all users regardless. Do you see, what I mean ?

I still think the best thing to do is to import your rankings, spam the regen button for a minute or two

Well, I addressed that point before.

and wait a couple weeks until the majority of the remainder that did not get updated gets fixed through regular use.

As said multiple times before, TCIs don't get updated on their own.
Sadly, the only time when a TCI is recalculated, is when you click on a user profile.

The easiest solution for this is for Criticker to standardize a 40% threshold for those with 0-100 rankings

I disagree. Not only should users not be robbed of their choice to set the threshold as per their requirements, but I'd also say the easiest solution for this is for Criticker to update the user's top-1000 TCIs regularly, at least once per week. I think I will submit a feature request for that (although it's pretty weird, as that should be a core function, not an additional "feature").

Additionally, my 50% threshold is rather close to the 40% threshold and you see that it doesn't work with 50%, so I doubt it would work with 40%.

And again, it's not a question of numbers. It's a question of broken core functionality.
When the site says, your threshold is 33 movies but no user with >33 movies is in your 150 best TCIs and users with <33 movies don't get discarded, then a core function is broken, as that is something that should never happen, no matter if you have 10 films, 100 films, 1000 films or 10.000 films ranked.

I am sorry if I am talking bluntly, it's not against you.
Quite to the contary, I appreciate your being here.
I am just a bit frustrated by the fact, that the site's basic concept is so ingenious, yet the implementation seems broken. And what really drives me crazy, is that apparently the users here don't even care ...

[dardan]

Dardan wrote:
and wait a couple weeks until the majority of the remainder that did not get updated gets fixed through regular use.

As said multiple times before, TCIs don't get updated on their own.
Sadly, the only time when a TCI is recalculated, is when you click on a user profile.

Right, but clicking on user profiles falls under regular use for me.

Dardan wrote:
The easiest solution for this is for Criticker to standardize a 40% threshold for those with 0-100 rankings

I disagree. Not only should users not be robbed of their choice to set the threshold as per their requirements, but I'd also say the easiest solution for this is for Criticker to update the user's top-1000 TCIs regularly, at least once per week.

Leaves out my point of:

If they apparently can't afford to allow refreshes required for a 10% based system, then they shouldn't maintain a 10% system.

I.e. they very likely can't afford it (anymore). From what mpowell said in that old thread it at least seems they discontinued this feature, with the only imaginable explanation being that it cost too much money.

Additionally, my 50% threshold is rather close to the 40% threshold and you see that it doesn't work with 50%, so I doubt it would work with 40%.

Even though a lot of TCI's got removed when I once upped the threshold to 25%, it now no longer indeed is (at least immediately) replaced. Weird. Perhaps it only worked in the past because I was a member then. This very likely must be it. It became too expensive to offer these functionalities to everyone and they decided it to reserve it for paying members. Spamming the regen button doesn't work for me now in the way that I described it earlier, either. This would explain why I gave one version of the workings of Criticker and you another, but it's odd they wouldn't describe this as a benefit for potential members (unless it falls under 'Full Daily PSI regenerations').

http://www.criticker.com/sponsor/

Btw, if they would offer a christmas deal of 50$ for 12 months instead of a linear 5$ a month, then I'd totally get that.


But the solution I gave would to a large degree prevent new users like you from being in the situation that you are in (with TCI's that you no longer can get rid of). They would be given a top 1000 TCI list with more films in common as a starting point, making the ability to fluctuate less necessary.

I'm still curious to see what'll happen if you import hundreds of rankings. Perhaps they have included a mechanism that only refreshes your TCI's after you add a lot of new rankings as opposed to a few. This could be another way to manage this problem: regenerating your TCI's after every 25 new rankings that you make. Weekly regens (for non-paying members) would be too expensive as they would recalculate every ranking you have with your TCI's even if you haven't added any new films.

[lisa-]

while i don't think that it's quite the heart-stoppingly catastrophic problem that you describe, and it also seems to gradually fix itself as you add more ratings, it is still something worth changing and so i added a feature request here:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5371

[VorpalKitten]

I will continue to wait and report back after 1 month, because if by then the best TCI list still has not updated, it never will on its own.

Ok, more than 1 month has passed now, and my best TCI list still has not changed, and still none of my 150 best TCIs match my threshold setting, although they should ALL be gone by now!

This means that TCIs are NEVER generated automatically.

I'm so disappointed, because I love this site so much, but what is it good for, if ranking new movies has no effect whatsoever ?

I got 14 new top TCIs this week, in front of my old #1 (my whole top ten got displaced) - I assume a whole lot of TCIs must have updated to get such a big change.

[livelove]

while i don't think that it's quite the heart-stoppingly catastrophic problem that you describe

It can't get any worse than a broken core function. But if you mean, that there are worse things in real life, I agree. That's not the point, though.

and it also seems to gradually fix itself as you add more ratings

no, it doesn't

[livelove]

I got 14 new top TCIs this week, in front of my old #1 (my whole top ten got displaced) - I assume a whole lot of TCIs must have updated to get such a big change.

Yes, it seems that a major TCI update has occurred in recent days.

For testing purposes, I have set my common films threshold to 50% on 29 September (as posted on page 1), so almost 2 months have passed without any TCI updates. The first TCI meeting the threshold was #165.
Today, all my top #1-#150 TCIs do meet the threshold.

I am quite sure the reason for this is that (if I am not mistaken) mpowell said somewhere, that they are going to change the method of generating TCIs by not selecting the from all users but only from the pool of users meeting your minimum films threshold.

Apparently, they have just implemented this new scheme.
Congratulations, that's fantastic news.

I'm still curious to know, whether this only means that TCI GENERATION is improved now, or TCIs are actually UPDATED.

[livelove]

OK, I just checked. The 50 new TCIs are still selected from all users, not the pool of users meeting your minimum films threshold.

But it seems, that something has been improved "unter the hood".
OR it means, that TCIs are only updated approximately every 2 months.

[90sCoffee]

Hey are these getting updated automatically now or is it still manual/semi-regular?

[fmoraes]

I would also like to know. Any updates on this?