"Pawn Sacrifice"

For posts related to a specific film -- beware of spoilers o ye who dareth enter!
Stewball
Posts: 3009
2188 Ratings
Your TCI: na
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:18 pm

"Pawn Sacrifice"

Post by Stewball »

Biggest disparity between a box office and my score, ever. An indescribably small $1 .3 mil ($1.6 including international !), though the rating are relatively high by those who have actually seen it. Excellent performances by Maguire, Schreiber and especially Sarsgaard, who was the character I identified with the most. I'm guessing most of the subtle humor wasn't obvious, to most--some of it being Chess humor. The movie perfectly portrays the fact that we'll never know how much of Bobby was show and strategy, and how much mental problems.

Excellent to outstanding use of music, especially "White Rabbit" by Jefferson Airplane from 40+ years before--which beyond doubt had to have been performed expressly for this move. If they'd have included "One Night in Bangkok", at least in the credits, it'd have finished it off exquisitely, "I get my kicks above the waistline, Sunshine"---but I'm obviously in a very small minority.

P.S. You don't even have to know how to play chess

MmzHrrdb
Your TCI: na

Re: "Pawn Sacrifice"

Post by MmzHrrdb »

i could not agree more, stewball. the chess scenes were a real nail-biter. unfortunately i had to give it a 4 because bobby fischer hated jews.

ShogunRua
Posts: 3449
0 Ratings
Your TCI: na
Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 3:18 am

Re: "Pawn Sacrifice"

Post by ShogunRua »

It's funny; I'm friends and occasionally talk with GM Emil Sutovsky on Facebook (former World Junior Champion, former top 20 player, and current president of the ACP, Association of Chess Professionals), and he wrote a post asking about the film. I replied with something to the effect; "Maybe it's just me among strong players, but I couldn't give a damn less about chess films."

I never met Fischer, but I have met a number of people who played with and were friends with him, including those during his childhood. (GM Larry Evans, GM Edmar Mednis, IM Anthony Saidy, GM Pal Benko, GM George Koltanowski, etc.) I have read THOUSANDS of pages worth of interviews, books, and articles by and about him. I have seen every single chess game he played since the time he was a child.

There is literally nothing this movie could teach me I don't already know. Moreoever, I would probably get annoyed by all the bullshit mistakes and revisionism in the movie.

For instance, they apparently show Boris Spassky acting like an asshole towards Fischer. Nothing could be further from the truth; Spassky was one of the great gentlemen of the game, and remained one of Fischer's very few chess friends into Bobby's old age and complete madness.

Very insulting towards the living legend Spassky, who is the oldest living world champion at 78 and suffered a major stroke in 2010.

doobler wrote:i could not agree more, stewball. the chess scenes were a real nail-biter. unfortunately i had to give it a 4 because bobby fischer hated jews.


Well, Fischer was himself a Jew. And he was absolutely jubilant over 9/11. There are a lot of awful and unsavory aspects to Fischer the human being. Fischer the player, of course, was a transcendent genius.

Stewball
Posts: 3009
2188 Ratings
Your TCI: na
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:18 pm

Re: "Pawn Sacrifice"

Post by Stewball »

doobler wrote:i could not agree more, stewball. the chess scenes were a real nail-biter. unfortunately i had to give it a 4 because bobby fischer hated jews.


They stress a couple of times during the movie that he was a Jew, and portrayed his anti-Semitic comments as flowing from his irrational mental state.

ShogunRua wrote:For instance, they apparently show Boris Spassky acting like an asshole towards Fischer.


Completely wrong. They show him most of the time as merely absorbing Fischer's behavior quietly with very little dialogue or other reaction until near the end where Fishcer's actions, planned or not, are taking their effect. His respect for Fischer shows in a complex current of emotion and competition during game 6, [spoiler]at the end of which, he stood up and applauded Fischer's play. That actually happened, and was a stunning scene with one of the greatest examples of loosing gracefully ever.[/spoiler] If there's any revisionism going on, it was in Spassky's favor.

This was much better than what I expected after the previews, but even that doesn't explain the totally disastrous box. To quote Murray Head again, perhaps his take on the LCD crowd at least partially explains it:

I don't see you guys rating
The kind of mate I'm contemplating
I'd let you watch, I would invite you
But the queens we use would not excite you

So you better go back to your bars, your temples,
.....your massage parlors....


What is "geek" after all, but a term to deride those who are smarter. On the other hand, "intellectual" has become a term used by phony geeks to deal with their heady opinion of themselves. "Please allow me to explicate." :roll:

BTW, 9/10.

ShogunRua
Posts: 3449
0 Ratings
Your TCI: na
Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 3:18 am

Re: "Pawn Sacrifice"

Post by ShogunRua »

Stewball wrote:
ShogunRua wrote:For instance, they apparently show Boris Spassky acting like an asshole towards Fischer.


Completely wrong. They show him most of the time as merely absorbing Fischer's behavior quietly with very little dialogue or other reaction until near the end where Fishcer's actions, planned or not, are taking their effect. His respect for Fischer shows in a complex current of emotion and competition during game 6,


Unless a number of people who have watched the film told me wrong, Spassky is also shown talking to Fischer (other than a draw offer) in the middle of a fucking game, which never happened, and would be the height of disrespect and poor behavior.

Stewball wrote:If there's any revisionism going on, it was in Spassky's favor.


Stewie, you really shouldn't talk out of your ass about subjects you're ignorant of.

Stewball
Posts: 3009
2188 Ratings
Your TCI: na
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:18 pm

Re: "Pawn Sacrifice"

Post by Stewball »

ShogunRua wrote:
Stewball wrote:
ShogunRua wrote:For instance, they apparently show Boris Spassky acting like an asshole towards Fischer.


Completely wrong. They show him most of the time as merely absorbing Fischer's behavior quietly with very little dialogue or other reaction until near the end where Fishcer's actions, planned or not, are taking their effect. His respect for Fischer shows in a complex current of emotion and competition during game 6,


Unless a number of people who have watched the film told me wrong, Spassky is also shown talking to Fischer (other than a draw offer) in the middle of a fucking game, which never happened, and would be the height of disrespect and poor behavior.

Stewball wrote:If there's any revisionism going on, it was in Spassky's favor.


Stewie, you really shouldn't talk out of your ass about subjects you're ignorant of.


Damn. You originally said they showed Spassky acting like an asshole, which is how the non-tournament public has viewed him then and now--but the movie revealed an entirely opposite personality from that, which undercuts your objection, based on what you heard. If he did break etiquette, and he certainly had reason to with all of Fischer's shit, and I don't recall it though I wasn't looking for it, it was a minor breach and wouldn't detract from the non-tournament chess crowd audience's positive takeaway.

I'm going to see it again, and it'll be easy to spot since there'll be subtitles to make it obvious. Finally, subtitles good for something.

That (if it occurred), and showing the world reaction to game 6 instead of after the end of the tournament when it would have happened generally, is taking minor artistic license--especially since it's "Based on a true story" instead of being one. Nonetheless.

ShogunRua
Posts: 3449
0 Ratings
Your TCI: na
Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 3:18 am

Re: "Pawn Sacrifice"

Post by ShogunRua »

Stewball wrote:
Damn. You originally said they showed Spassky acting like an asshole, which is how the non-tournament public has viewed him then and now--


Now you're just making things up, Stewie. Spassky is widely known as a gentleman in the chess world. Outside the chess world, I have never heard single bad word about him, whether among Europeans or Americans, and certainly not "asshole". That's literally something you just invented.

Come on, you're better than that.

Stewball wrote:If he did break etiquette,


Except he didn't.

And talking to someone in the middle of a game except to offer a draw isn't just "breaking etiquette". It's the act of a pure asshole. Even people with horrible chess manners or who are widely reviled as douchebags in the chess world (GM Hikaru Nakamura, for instance, among current players) don't ever do that.

See, this is why I can't enjoy such movies. To Stewie, it's just "artistic license" or whatever. Fine. To me, it's so supremely moronic, disrespectful, and wrong, that I would still be shaking my head at it minutes later, and be completely taken out of the picture.

Suture Self
Posts: 545
2704 Ratings
Your TCI: na
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:30 am

Re: "Pawn Sacrifice"

Post by Suture Self »

Shogun and I can finally agree on something - this movie looks like garbage.

mattorama12
Posts: 887
3086 Ratings
Your TCI: na
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:05 am

Re: "Pawn Sacrifice"

Post by mattorama12 »

ShogunRua wrote:And talking to someone in the middle of a game except to offer a draw isn't just "breaking etiquette". It's the act of a pure asshole. Even people with horrible chess manners or who are widely reviled as douchebags in the chess world (GM Hikaru Nakamura, for instance, among current players) don't ever do that.


Wait, do people not talk at all during a chess match? Follow-up question, when playing untimed chess, is there an etiquette for how long you're allowed to take per move?

VinegarBob
Posts: 775
4158 Ratings
Your TCI: na
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:54 am

Re: "Pawn Sacrifice"

Post by VinegarBob »

mattorama12 wrote:Wait, do people not talk at all during a chess match?


No, they absolutely do-not. Ever.

Post Reply