What proportion of your ranked movies are by women?

Discuss your favorite actors, directors or screenwriters
Suture Self
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Re: What proportion of your ranked movies are by women?

Post by Suture Self »

AgostoMesmer wrote:It just all seems so unnecessary. I assume that most of us understood zepfanman and, where uncertain afforded him the 'benefit of the doubt', sadly something you seem incapable of doing. Time and time again you react to the merest ambiguity or uncertainty with keyboard-warrior bullshit.

PO

Let's get to the truth of this keyboard-warrior problem.

I think Shogun is certainly worried about affirmative action, and *possibly* worried about misandry + the power of the female mind, so he 1) negates what makes their life experience different than a male's life experience and 2) in the same vein as 1, *possibly* intentionally forgets to acknowledge society's much different treatment of women than men. As a result, he has eliminated the problem of gender differences.

And now we are one step closer to a libertarian utopia. Hoo-rah.

Let's be clear: If we're going all Martin Luther King here, obviously it is favorable to judge a man or a woman by the content of their character, and not the shape of their genitals, but to ignore the potential differences seems lazy. Putting it another way: to say that there might be or are differences we should take into account isn't really a stupid thing at all, and is, imo, simply an obvious and reasonable way to try and understand things.

ShogunRua
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Re: What proportion of your ranked movies are by women?

Post by ShogunRua »

AgostoMesmer wrote:
ShogunRua wrote:I notice you have a habit of conflating two wildly different statements saying two completely different things, and then pretending that they're somehow related/identical.
....
Where are you struggling to distinguish between these two statements?

I understood them well -they are related, that they are not identical -even conflict- was my point;

Zepfanman suggested there may be differences between different minorities, groups or genders works -and perhaps by extension them- you screamed -ist.
You then suggested there may be differences between genders, but presented it as some great truth-bomb.


Because when it comes to discussing men and women as larger groups, you can say that one tends to like something more than the other.

But when it comes to discussing individuals, reducing their entire "perspective" to their genitalia, skin color, and sexual preference is retarded.

And last I checked, movies are directed by a single individual, not groups of hundreds of millions.

AgostoMesmer wrote:Time and time again you react to the merest ambiguity or uncertainty with keyboard-warrior bullshit.


"Keyboard-warrior bullshit" like this?

And there was no ambiguity to what Zepfanman wrote. I'm glad you're offended on someone else's behalf, but he wrote that he watches movies largely based on the genitalia/skin color/sexual preference of its director, to the exclusion of other genitalia/skin color/sexual preference.

By definition, that's sexist and racist. I'm not offended or upset by it, but it's precisely what he wrote. If someone wrote that they hated Jews and I call them an anti-Semite, that's exactly accurate.

Suture Self
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Re: What proportion of your ranked movies are by women?

Post by Suture Self »

I also don't think it's wrong to say some material might be better suited for one gender than the other, although I'll also admit that a man or a woman should be able to direct whatever they please, and I'm perfectly willing to believe material that might be better suited for a woman could be directed just as well by a man, and vice versa.

Yet, for example, I honestly think Blue is the Warmest Color would have been better had it been directed by a woman. At the very least, there wouldn't have been a hilarious scissor scene.

Suture Self
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Re: What proportion of your ranked movies are by women?

Post by Suture Self »

ShogunRua wrote:Because when it comes to discussing men and women as larger groups, you can say that one tends to like something more than the other.

But when it comes to discussing individuals, reducing their entire "perspective" to their genitalia, skin color, and sexual preference is retarded.

And last I checked, movies are directed by a single individual, not groups of hundreds of millions.


Maybe I missed something but I thought the discussion was about a larger group of women (female directors)? I also don't think anyone is intentionally being reductive here.

I don't think anyone would disagree with your statement about assessing someone as an individual, though when assessing art, it's hard, maybe even impossible, to ignore the discussion of gender (or skin color, or sexual preference) and to just pigeonhole every individual as a blank slate removed from that seems unrealistic, imo.

For example: I don't know if you've seen any of the guy's films, but it would be very hard to honestly discuss a director like Rainer Werner Fassbinder as an individual without considering his nationality, his gender, his sexual preferences, etc.
Last edited by Suture Self on Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

Suture Self
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Re: What proportion of your ranked movies are by women?

Post by Suture Self »

ShogunRua wrote:And there was no ambiguity to what Zepfanman wrote. I'm glad you're offended on someone else's behalf, but he wrote that he watches movies largely based on the genitalia/skin color/sexual preference of its director, to the exclusion of other genitalia/skin color/sexual preference.

By definition, that's sexist and racist. I'm not offended or upset by it, but it's precisely what he wrote. If someone wrote that they hated Jews and I call them an anti-Semite, that's exactly accurate.

I think you might be misinterpreting his intentions. Just because he occasionally categorizes his viewing based on certain qualities a filmmaker might have doesn't strike me as sexist as much as it strikes me as a little OCD. If he were like "Yeah, I'm gonna watch a woman's movie because women are superior to men", then it's sexist. But if he's like, "I'm gonna watch a woman's movie because it's directed by a woman and this fascinates me" it has the potential to be a little weird and reductive, definitely, but I don't find that inherently sexist.

After reading Zep's posts, it seems fairly clear that he does so because he has an interest in sexism, and I don't see anything wrong with that. He believes women are unfairly excluded from the movie industry, so as a result, he watches movies by women in order to get a better understanding of what's going on. What's wrong with this? You seem to dislike his motives.

Ag0stoMesmer
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Re: What proportion of your ranked movies are by women?

Post by Ag0stoMesmer »

FarCryss wrote:
ShogunRua wrote:And there was no ambiguity to what Zepfanman wrote. I'm glad you're offended on someone else's behalf...

I think you might be misinterpreting his intentions...

After reading Zep's posts, it seems fairly clear that he does so because he has an interest in sexism, and I don't see anything wrong with that. He believes women are unfairly excluded from the movie industry, so as a result, he watches movies by women in order to get a better understanding of what's going on. What's wrong with this? You seem to dislike his motives.


Perhaps you did miss the meaning, you seem to struggle with finding meaning beyond the actual words used -even in your own writing- as in the Her thread, and as lame as it was for me to respond there -you called my name.

Perhaps I am assuming too much in good faith, maybe you're pulled up on such slips IRL so often you assume the only possible way to discuss differences is with accusation and anger. Or maybe FarCryss is on to something and you've wilfully misinterpreted

Whichever it is I'm not offended on anybody's behalf, just annoyed yet another interesting thread has been tied up with one members fears and insecurities.

ShogunRua
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Re: What proportion of your ranked movies are by women?

Post by ShogunRua »

AgostoMesmer wrote:Perhaps you did miss the meaning, you seem to struggle with finding meaning beyond the actual words used


HAHA. "meaning beyond the actual words used"?! So I need to interpret meaning from words that aren't there, like you always do? Agosto, do you even read the nonsense you spew forth?

With you, it's often difficult to distinguish between trolling and sincerity.

AgostoMesmer wrote: and as lame as it was for me to respond there


Yes, it was.

AgostoMesmer wrote:you called my name.


Yes, I made a reference to you in regards to Stewball making a powerful, debatable statement, but refusing to disclose any reasons for it. It was a single throw-away comment in a very long post.

The fact that this enraged you enough to go off the deep end in that topic shows you have serious "IRL problems", as you like to call them.

AgostoMesmer wrote:Whichever it is I'm not offended on anybody's behalf, just annoyed yet another interesting thread has been tied up with one members fears and insecurities.


I know the only reasons you're posting here is because you love bickering with me, but you might want to actually go through and read the topic itself.

In particular, note the first person who mentions their dislike of the topic (pro tip- not me), and then note the person who makes all the same points I did, only 3 years ago, and far more extensively. (That would be Rufflesack, who, despite being a fellow liberal, is at least a rational and logical one, unlike you)

Oh, and I'm not exactly sure what is "interesting" about this topic aside from the arguments. Without that, it's yet another djross list topic where everyone posts a meaningless number. As for "fears and insecurities", don't project too hard, Agosto.

Ag0stoMesmer
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Re: What proportion of your ranked movies are by women?

Post by Ag0stoMesmer »

ShogunRua wrote:HAHA. "meaning beyond the actual words used"?! So I need to interpret meaning from words that aren't there, like you always do? Agosto, do you even read the nonsense you spew forth?

I doubt this is really such a wacky idea to you. I was trying to be kind but, you're inconsistent/selective with your literalism. It's just another tactic you use to stir up shit.

ShogunRua wrote:In particular, note the first person who mentions their dislike of the topic (pro tip- not me), and then note the person who makes all the same points I did, only 3 years ago, and far more extensively. (That would be Rufflesack, who, despite being a fellow liberal, is at least a rational and logical one, unlike you)

Obviously Rufflesack does not speak for me and the conversation with him seems more about opposing quotas and such. Again with the us vs them, liberal vs whatever stuff. Can't we just speak as individuals without such guff?

ShogunRua wrote:Oh, and I'm not exactly sure what is "interesting" about this topic aside from the arguments. Without that, it's yet another djross list topic where everyone posts a meaningless number. As for "fears and insecurities", don't project too hard, Agosto.

That you don't find the low percentages presented interesting perhaps rests on your own lack of curiosity, that you are only interested in argument on your disagreeableness. Perhaps this is why you twisted a members -obvious- good intent into some -ism to squeal at.

Before this thread I had no idea only 4% of my watched movies were made by Women, it doesn't seem like a perfect situation to me. If there's a reason why 50% of the population only making ~4% of films is better than some more representative share, I can't find it.

ShogunRua
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Re: What proportion of your ranked movies are by women?

Post by ShogunRua »

AgostoMesmer wrote:
ShogunRua wrote:HAHA. "meaning beyond the actual words used"?! So I need to interpret meaning from words that aren't there, like you always do? Agosto, do you even read the nonsense you spew forth?

I doubt this is really such a wacky idea to you. I was trying to be kind but, you're inconsistent/selective with your literalism. It's just another tactic you use to stir up shit.


Incredible, isn't it? Agosto is making a bald-faced argument that I should be interpreting meaning from words that aren't there, while ignoring the statements that are.

AgostoMesmer wrote:Before this thread I had no idea only 4% of my watched movies were made by Women, it doesn't seem like a perfect situation to me. If there's a reason why 50% of the population only making ~4% of films is better than some more representative share, I can't find it.


The reason you can't find it is your utter refusal to read through the topic, and pig-headed stubbornness. (A fact which myself, movieboy, and anyone who has had the unfortunate task of trying to show you anything knows all too well)

Both myself and Rufflesack have already mentioned, at great length, why the percentages are that way, and that it has nothing to do with discrimination. As usual for Agosto, he completely ignored it, but then brings it up several posts later as an axiom.

I'm having bad flashbacks to the "Agosto Hates Science" topic, so I will just copy and paste a relevant post;

Ever notice how the only complaints about gender disparity are in male-dominated fields, and not the female-dominated ones?

The more I think about it, the more I realize what a perfect analogue authors and the publishing industry are. The vast majority of writers (at least 80%) are women. The vast majority of published, professional writers are women, too. The publishing industry (editors, executives) is 80-90% women. The entire publishing industry is set up to appeal to women, and publishing executives make no secret of this fact.

This, despite the fact that half of English majors are men, and as many men as women can read.

Clearly, this is a sign of horrific gender discrimination! It's an "embarrassing" (to use that idiot female director's word) statistic the publishing industry should be deeply ashamed of. Why do they hate and discriminate against a gender so much?!

Of course, this is all nonsense. In terms of serious readers (those who read multiple books a year), women far, far outnumber men. In terms of people who actually buy books, women greatly outnumber men, too. Again, the book club I moderate is roughly 90% female.

As for writing, women are generally more interested in being authors than men are. Again, this is pretty obvious from looking at any online writing forum.

Thus, it's perfectly normal and natural for the writing/publishing industry to be female-dominated.

But somehow, even intelligent people like mattorama can't make the same elementary reasoning for the movie industry.

This, despite the fact that this very forum is proof of the numbers; we're like 80-90% men. (Is Criticker discriminating against women, too?!) Or the fact that clubs dedicated to directing are mostly populated by men.

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Re: What proportion of your ranked movies are by women?

Post by CMonster »

I'm no scientist so maybe somebody with a degree can explain my theory better, but maybe testosterone is like magic movie juice pumped into men's veins by way of their genitals so genitalia does have something to do with movie making? Also possibly why big female directors like Bigelow make actions movies, cause their all hopped up on the testo?

Hopefully I'm not totally off base here.

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