Reasonable Movies About God

[Greg_D_R]

Hello there. I might as well jump in with a first post about the most divisive and controversial subject imaginable. To my best understanding of your criteria, Oh God! from 1977 should definitely be on this list. A reasonable movie about a reasonable God, to say the least. It still holds up very well, even for this Jesus-disbelieving agnostic.

[MmzHrrdb]

The Rapture (1991) may interest you.

[Kublai Khan]

What about The Last Temptation of Christ? I know it's considered blasphemous by some, but really is a great exploration into the human side of Jesus Christ.

[Stewball]

Hello there. I might as well jump in with a first post about the most divisive and controversial subject imaginable. To my best understanding of your criteria, Oh God! from 1977 should definitely be on this list. A reasonable movie about a reasonable God, to say the least. It still holds up very well, even for this Jesus-disbelieving agnostic.

But I don't think it even took itself seriously, and "serious" is listed a definite criterion--unless there was something I missed. That was a long time ago, and I am a divine Jesus disbelieving agnostic myself.

What about The Last Temptation of Christ? I know it's considered blasphemous by some, but really is a great exploration into the human side of Jesus Christ.

Yes, the human side of Jesus (which I think is all there ever was), sort of a non-muscial Jesus Christ Superstar. Jesus was a definite believer, who presented himself with epic blind faith, which as I've said elsewhere made him an epic failure.

I should probably add two more recently released titles:

Noah: Aronofsky holds up the fable for modern examination and asks, can we believe this literally happened? He throws in a lot of Kabbalistic mysticism to make it more inclusive for Jews (he's an atheistic Jew himself), and he departs from scriptural adherence to a degree; but he presents Noah as seeing God's will in his visions when there was none--a critical point.

Her: Jonze offers a possible scientific foundation for a hereafter, yet God is most notable by It's total absence from notice, pro or con--the two concepts normally going hand in hand. It's the ultimate agnostic viewpoint. If God is there, It's keeping Itself absolutely undetectable by us in this universe. (That said, my question is how could the universe, and whatever ether it is suspended "in", exist, without either being created by a super-consciousness, or generating one? Fortunately, it appears that the answer to that question is unknowable, in this universe, because if it were, we would loose our free will.)

[Mentaculus]

Hrmmm... I'm still a bit confused on exactly what we're after with the thread/list. Perhaps films about God should be God employing an active role as a character or a mechanism of the main plot; or in His absence, the characters must dialogue directly about His role or purpose in the world? Otherwise we're getting films about faith, like, say, Of Gods and Men or Bad Lieutenant. Which are fine and all, but I think you want something more targeted.

Just on God, though:

I was checking out James Whitmore's filmography and came across this one, which I admittedly have not seen, but at least appears to address the issues presented here.
Love Exposure (2008) - Lots of talk of God and His mission for us, if memory serves, especially in its second half. And this movie takes itself freaking seriously.
The Man From Earth (2007) - Highly recommended, and I think, the themes are right up your alley, Stewball.
The Sacrifice (1986)
Secret Sunshine (2007)
A Serious Man (2009) (I brought it up again, I know)
Valhalla Rising (2009)
Blatty Film Cycle: Exorcist / The Ninth Configuration / Exorcist III
The Nines (2007)
The Ruling Class (1972)
Star Trek: The Motion Picture / Star Trek V: The Final Frontier (you're goddamn right I brought these up.)
Bunuel's The Milky Way is probably his most direct approach on the subject.

[Stewball]

Hrmmm... I'm still a bit confused on exactly what we're after with the thread/list. Perhaps films about God should be God employing an active role as a character or a mechanism of the main plot; or in His absence, the characters must dialogue directly about His role or purpose in the world? Otherwise we're getting films about faith, like, say, Of Gods and Men or Bad Lieutenant. Which are fine and all, but I think you want something more targeted.

Just on God, though:

I was checking out James Whitmore's filmography and came across this one, which I admittedly have not seen, but at least appears to address the issues presented here.
Love Exposure (2008) - Lots of talk of God and His mission for us, if memory serves, especially in its second half. And this movie takes itself freaking seriously.
The Man From Earth (2007) - Highly recommended, and I think, the themes are right up your alley, Stewball.
The Sacrifice (1986)
Secret Sunshine (2007)
A Serious Man (2009) (I brought it up again, I know)
Valhalla Rising (2009)
Blatty Film Cycle: Exorcist / The Ninth Configuration / Exorcist III
The Nines (2007)
The Ruling Class (1972)
Star Trek: The Motion Picture / Star Trek V: The Final Frontier (you're goddamn right I brought these up.)
Bunuel's The Milky Way is probably his most direct approach on the subject.

Thanks for the list. I'm either not familiar or forgotten most of them, but at least I have seen the Star Trek's, but I'm going to need some convincing of their relevance to the topic. In any case I'm going to be watching at least some of them. (ed.) Jogged my memory and I have seen the first two at least. I have a hard time taking the first one seriously, not surprising I didn't make the connection. The Man From Earth, has an excellent premise and story, but like so many, it trails off, unable or unwilling to drop the other shoe for fear of ridicule or whatever.

As for your initial comment, since it appears that our realistic choices are boiling down to either no God, or a laissez faire God, it's really hard to talk about something for which there is no evidence either way, only speculation. Ergo, the need for movies like the last two I posted, especially Her, where God is the "invisible" elephant in the room.....or not. Now there's a quantum qubit paradox for you: on, off, or both.

[ShogunRua]

Love Exposure (2008) - Lots of talk of God and His mission for us, if memory serves, especially in its second half. And this movie takes itself freaking seriously.

The film has almost nothing to say about God or Christian doctrine itself. Rather, it's a searing criticism of organized religion, especially cults.

[Mentaculus]

but at least I have seen the Star Trek's, but I'm going to need some convincing of their relevance to the topic.

What does God need with a Starship?

As for your initial comment, since it appears that our realistic choices are boiling down to either no God, or a laissez faire God, it's really hard to talk about something for which there is no evidence either way, only speculation. Ergo, the need for movies like the last two I posted, especially Her, where God is the "invisible" elephant in the room.....or not. Now there's a quantum qubit paradox for you: on, off, or both.

I personally don't believe in a laissez faire God, because I accept the concepts of [Common] Grace and Imminence, implying an active role in our affairs while retaining free will, so I think I found our disconnect. Each of us is of course informed by our belief or our disbelief.

Using the logic of the Her and Noah comments, a 'realistic' definition of God is an impossibility given the metrics established here: it's Schrödinger's Deity. In your words, Noah "offers a possible scientific foundation for a hereafter, yet God is most notable by It's total absence from notice", but if you seek, there you shall find. You connected the two inherently, so the argument falls apart. It is admittedly circular on my end of the spectrum, too: reason is an attribute of God, we are created in God's image and retain common grace and providential order in creation, therefore reason can itself be viewed as an act of divine intervention.

So, can a definition of God exist in a film/art/work with no God? By tracing an outline of a form and ignoring the contents, does that not also define the object, in some way?

If the purpose of the thread is to find film art that kinda, sorta connotes a concept of this godlike elephant in the room but also totally validates that it may just be a giant feeling I have when I walk towards that corner of my apartment, then we may be limited to the six films are so you mentioned, and quite possibly Kurosawa's Ran, Malick's films, and Adrien Lyne's Jacob's Ladder, which IMO impose a notion of God via the void thereof. I think the more productive argument is to find those films mentioning God explicitly, see what they say, and find the common themes and connecting threads. Otherwise, we are looking for films about God that are noncommittal (but if we discover the answer may in fact be Yes, it demands said commitment) and ethereal.

The film has almost nothing to say about God or Christian doctrine itself. Rather, it's a searing criticism of organized religion, especially cults.

Certainly yes, but the Daddy issues from nearly all characters (ranging from incest to physical abuse to religious dogmatism to molestation to gender-bending and machismo to castration) in combination with its clear religious overtones made me think we were seeking a definition of God/Father to Man(/Woman) as one of its many possible readings. I don't think you can quote Corinthians 13 in its entirety in one take and act coy about God's possible influence.

[Stewball]

What does God need with a Starship?

??? What does God need with a universe. BTW, there is a speculative but reasonable answer to that question, if God exists.

I personally don't believe in a laissez faire God, because I accept the concepts of [Common] Grace and Imminence, implying an active role in our affairs while retaining free will, so I think I found our disconnect. Each of us is of course informed by our belief or our disbelief.

The problem with an imminent God is that there is nothing but hearsay evidence for it--and an infinite amount of hard evidence against it.

Using the logic of the Her and Noah comments, a 'realistic' definition of God is an impossibility given the metrics established here: it's Schrödinger's Deity. In your words, Noah "offers a possible scientific foundation for a hereafter,

No, that comment was about Her.

yet God is most notable by It's total absence from notice", but if you seek, there you shall find.

Yes, via total blind faith.

You connected the two inherently, so the argument falls apart. It is admittedly circular on my end of the spectrum, too: reason is an attribute of God, we are created in God's image and retain common grace and providential order in creation, therefore reason can itself be viewed as an act of divine intervention.

I'm willing to admit (and believe), that if God exists, It created the universe to spawn self-aware sentient creatures with free will. If God is exerting any influence on our decisions, then we don't have free will. Our being given free will and the ability to reason means that we make our choices, they were not preordained through your "act of divine intervention". If they were, if everyone is or isn't written in the "Book of Life from the beginning", this whole exercise in life is pointless. There's nothing, besides creating creatures with free will, that a omnipotent God couldn't do instantly.

So, can a definition of God exist in a film/art/work with no God? By tracing an outline of a form and ignoring the contents, does that not also define the object, in some way?

Our working definition of God is Truth, whether the Truth is a sentient super being, or not.

I think the more productive argument is to find those films mentioning God explicitly, see what they say, and find the common themes and connecting threads. Otherwise, we are looking for films about God that are noncommittal (but if we discover the answer may in fact be Yes, it demands said commitment) and ethereal.

Besides your inane elephant/god comment, you have something of a point. But there are certain circumstances where pointedly talking around something (NOT just ignoring it) can be instructive.

The film has almost nothing to say about God or Christian doctrine itself. Rather, it's a searing criticism of organized religion, especially cults.

Certainly yes, but the Daddy issues from nearly all characters (ranging from incest to physical abuse to religious dogmatism to molestation to gender-bending and machismo to castration) in combination with its clear religious overtones made me think we were seeking a definition of God/Father to Man(/Woman) as one of its many possible readings.

The problem is that because all revealed religions are prevarications, we were only watching people being idiotic because they've been taught to blindly follow their feelings instead of guiding them with reason.

I don't think you can quote Corinthians 13 in its entirety in one take and act coy about God's possible influence.

Paul is the beast of revelation, not as revealed by God, but as judged by the original Jewish followers of Jesus who remained Jews. Christianity should rightly be called Paulism.

[Mentaculus]

What does God need with a Starship?

??? What does God need with a universe. BTW, there is a speculative but reasonable answer to that question, if God exists.

Ha. In both films key characters search for their Creators; one leads to a transcendence of corporal being a la 2001, the other, well, gets in a fistfight. Both morals are key to understanding the Trek mythos, and its religiosity of human endeavor and reason triumphing over superstition and fantasy.

The problem with an imminent God is that there is nothing but hearsay evidence for it--and an infinite amount of hard evidence against it.

Your sermon's not going to convince me any, but then again, I'm not after converting you, either. Just trying to say the metrics you presented in the forum first post took me some while to wrap my head around, and I was still having trouble -- it has all to do with differing worldviews. Actually, I get a kick out of the dialogue.

No, that comment was about Her.

Oh look at that. Fair enough.

Our working definition of God is Truth, whether the Truth is a sentient super being, or not.

Ah! here we are. So the conversation and list should focus on those films that hint at an underlying, ultimate Power / Truth, particularly those movie texts lacking the trappings of religious iconography or dogmatic couching into said belief structures.

Yes, via total blind faith.
...
The problem is that because all revealed religions are prevarications, we were only watching people being idiotic because they've been taught to blindly follow their feelings instead of guiding them with reason.
...
Paul is the beast of revelation, not as revealed by God, but as judged by the original Jewish followers of Jesus who remained Jews. Christianity should rightly be called Paulism.

Indeed. That's rather presumptuous. And looks quite a lot like blind faith.