anime movies for people who hate anime

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ShogunRua
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Re: anime movies for people who hate anime

Post by ShogunRua »

abcdefgh wrote:There is a lot of stuff, come on. If you don't like the general anime tropes, you have Hayao Miyazaki, Isao Takahata, Satoshi Kon, Mamoru Oshii, Makoto Shinkai, all of them authors with a recognizable style that, even if it takes things and imagery from the mainstream anime, is still very unique.

But if that doesn't sound convincing there is experimental stuff (Cat Soup, Mind Game, Serial Experiments: Lain, and short films from Osamu Tezuka, Koji Yamamura, Kunio Kato), there are series anyone -fan or not- can enjoy easily (Cobwoy Bebop being the greatest example... I still don't know anyone who hates it)...


You're probably not responding to me, but I'm aware of all the series you list, (and yes, "Mind Game" and "Cat Soup" should be added to the list of quality works I mentioned in my post on the last page) but they don't change the reality of how putrid modern-day anime is.

Take a gander at this;

http://www.fandompost.com/wp-content/up ... -Chart.jpg

That's every single anime produced in Japan during the summer of 2011. The vast majority feature the "6 year-old, flat-chested girl with giant saucer eyes and no nose masquerading as a supposed teenager for Japanese basement-dwellers to jack off to".

Hell, I don't see any series, film, or OVA that would qualify as anything mature or particularly interesting on there.

Haruhi (probably not hype-worthy but that doesn't make it a bad show at all),


It's pretty bad, alright.

Princess Tutu (another personal and barely known favorite)...).


It's quite well-known, but I refuse to watch a series with such obvious pandering to pedophiles.

About "moe": quite honestly, I don't know what to think about it. It has become such a repeated trope in itself in the criticisms of anime fans that probably its relevance in the current industry is being overdimensioned. It is just a trendy resource, some use it well and some use it badly, it's not exactly anything new and doesn't involve anything bad per se. If anything, it becomes bad if the show is clumsy at trying to feel cute, if it loses its effectiveness or bases its whole strength on that alone. None of the above mentioned series has any of those characteristics and all of them are from the 00's.


Firstly, that's factually wrong; Cowboy Bebop was from the 90s. Also, a bunch of things you mentioned ("Cat Soup", "Serial Experiments Lain", "Mind Game", etc.) are from either 2000 or 2001, off the top of my head. It technically qualifies, but the industry was different back then.

Secondly, it's funny that you don't see anything wrong with moe, considering many people involved in the anime/manga industry in Japan do see it as a disturbing trend. Everyone from Shinichiro Watanabe (director of "Cowboy Bebop", "Samurai Champloo", etc.) to authors of books on manga/anime history.

Thirdly, there is no fucking comparison to what things were like in the late 80s and early 90s to today. Back then, the animation style I put in quotes above was limited to a small minority of manga.

It only became a major force in anime beginning in the mid 2000s, and now, if you look at the line-up for any given season, is present in at least 90% of the series, and the main appealing force in the vast majority.

It also means many OVAs/series have no content besides its softcore porn, pedophilic undertones. Many series are now adopted from adult cartoon porn games (School Days) or anything else salacious and content-less. (like a cartoon porn card games! Queen's Blade)

Oh, and of course, there was a huge anime bestseller which featured 20 minutes of a big-breasted, teenage girl SLEEPING. I can't make shit like this up.

So to summarize, whether out of ignorance or misrepresentation, you are very wrong about the current state of anime. (It's utter and complete crap)

Most series/OVA today are the most vile, disgusting, and mindless shit imaginable. Let's not kid ourselves.

Excelsior
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Re: anime movies for people who hate anime

Post by Excelsior »

Legend of the Galactic Heroes, Mononoke, Haibane Renmei, and Texhnolyze are all amazing anime series. And as far as movies go, Dead Leaves, Totoro, and Mind Game are all T10/T9 for me. As far as anime in the last four years go, there's Tatami Galaxy, Baccano!, and Gurren Lagann. Other than that? It's mostly just generic trash.

edkrak
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Re: anime movies for people who hate anime

Post by edkrak »

ShogunRua wrote:
Take a gander at this;

http://www.fandompost.com/wp-content/up ... -Chart.jpg

That's every single anime produced in Japan during the summer of 2011. The vast majority feature the "6 year-old, flat-chested girl with giant saucer eyes and no nose masquerading as a supposed teenager for Japanese basement-dwellers to jack off to".

Hell, I don't see any series, film, or OVA that would qualify as anything mature or particularly interesting on there.



You missed new Ghibli film. But generally you're right. For last few seasons I tried to watch 1-2 series considered to be the best and usually couldn't make it through first episode.

jal90
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Re: anime movies for people who hate anime

Post by jal90 »

ShogunRua wrote:You're probably not responding to me, but I'm aware of all the series you list, (and yes, "Mind Game" and "Cat Soup" should be added to the list of quality works I mentioned in my post on the last page) but they don't change the reality of how putrid modern-day anime is.

Yep, I was responding to Luna6ix instead.

Take a gander at this;

http://www.fandompost.com/wp-content/up ... -Chart.jpg

That's every single anime produced in Japan during the summer of 2011. The vast majority feature the "6 year-old, flat-chested girl with giant saucer eyes and no nose masquerading as a supposed teenager for Japanese basement-dwellers to jack off to".

Hell, I don't see any series, film, or OVA that would qualify as anything mature or particularly interesting on there.


About the topic of moe, I agree there is a problem. Look, I watched that anime chart some time before and only found two or three series that could be potentially interesting (No6 looks like what could be a nice sci-fi show; Usagi Drop doesn't look bad at all). But in the end I don't know if it's that serious as a problem or it is just an industry trend that will be left later by another idea, like many others. In one way or the other, if there is, say, a 95% of worthless shit, there is still a room for 5% of interesting stuff, so the moe phenomenon doesn't make anything in the final result as only a few shows every year are remembered by the fans and apply for the category of "classic".

It's pretty bad, alright.

Well, I knew this was going to be a polemic choice for you but I'm one of those guys who tend to stay in the middle when there are very conflicting opinions on something. I like Haruhi, but don't love it to the point of buying toys and post in threads about weird pairings.

It's quite well-known, but I refuse to watch a series with such obvious pandering to pedophiles.

It's not that well-known where I live, but whatever. Since I am not a pedophile, I don't care if it tries to pander to pedophiles. There is still a lot of stuff in this show that I can largely enjoy. Which is actually marketed as a shojo, so I don't even know if it is actually trying to find its audience among those people. But anyway, as said, I am not a pedophile, I can enjoy what the show offers, here it is.

Firstly, that's factually wrong; Cowboy Bebop was from the 90s. Also, a bunch of things you mentioned ("Cat Soup", "Serial Experiments Lain", "Mind Game", etc.) are from either 2000 or 2001, off the top of my head. It technically qualifies, but the industry was different back then.

I meant the four series I mentioned in the previous paragraph. Serial Experiment Lain is also from the 90s (1998 if I remember well).

Secondly, it's funny that you don't see anything wrong with moe, considering many people involved in the anime/manga industry in Japan do see it as a disturbing trend. Everyone from Shinichiro Watanabe (director of "Cowboy Bebop", "Samurai Champloo", etc.) to authors of books on manga/anime history.

No, no. I do see wrong things with moe, but more in the sense of the lack of variety (see anime chart) than as a real offender. I don't know if I am that soft as a fan (I don't even consider myself an anime fan), but the fact there is a trend I don't share in the industry doesn't bother me to the point of not trying to find gems among the mediocrity, and actually finding them.

Thirdly, there is no fucking comparison to what things were like in the late 80s and early 90s to today. Back then, the animation style I put in quotes above was limited to a small minority of manga.


It only became a major force in anime beginning in the mid 2000s, and now, if you look at the line-up for any given season, is present in at least 90% of the series, and the main appealing force in the vast majority.

It also means many OVAs/series have no content besides its softcore porn, pedophilic undertones. Many series are now adopted from adult cartoon porn games (School Days) or anything else salacious and content-less. (like a cartoon porn card games! Queen's Blade)

Oh, and of course, there was a huge anime bestseller which featured 20 minutes of a big-breasted, teenage girl SLEEPING. I can't make shit like this up.

So to summarize, whether out of ignorance or misrepresentation, you are very wrong about the current state of anime. (It's utter and complete crap)

Most series/OVA today are the most vile, disgusting, and mindless shit imaginable. Let's not kid ourselves.

Yeah, I am probably wrong, or maybe I tend to choose so accurately that I can avoid the shit that comes every season. But, as said, I don't say there isn't a problem with this trend, but in the end what we get from it is essentially the same as always. A few shows each year that are worth remembering, and that's all.

And no, I don't think moe essentially, as an idea, is bad. It's the abuse, or more likely the bad use, what can drive it to unbearable levels.

ShogunRua
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Re: anime movies for people who hate anime

Post by ShogunRua »

abcdefgh wrote:

About the topic of moe, I agree there is a problem. Look, I watched that anime chart some time before and only found two or three series that could be potentially interesting (No6 looks like what could be a nice sci-fi show; Usagi Drop doesn't look bad at all).


I've read about 40 chapters of the "Usagi Drop" manga, and it's very good. (I'm a fan of the author and her works in general) That being said, there is an adaptation of an unorthodox, more adult-oriented manga like that a couple of times at most every calender year, and in many instances, they manage to fuck it up. (Blade of the Immortal comes to mind)

abdcdefg wrote: But in the end I don't know if it's that serious as a problem or it is just an industry trend that will be left later by another idea, like many others. In one way or the other, if there is, say, a 95% of worthless shit, there is still a room for 5% of interesting stuff, so the moe phenomenon doesn't make anything in the final result as only a few shows every year are remembered by the fans and apply for the category of "classic".


Well, it's a very serious problem because this moe shit is the only thing that makes money in the anime industry nowadays.

All those serious, exciting, and original series/movies you, myself, and other people have mentioned above, made since 2000?

With the exception of Baccano and Gurenn Lagan, they all lost money through the ears. If the anime industry were to solely concentrate on those quality works, they would be bankrupt already. As a result, you're seeing fewer and fewer attempts at anything that isn't moe, let alone successes.

I'm not sure if anything is going to change; much like Hollywood movie studios are going bankrupt left and right, desperately scrambling for any cartoon or superhero adaptation that might make them money, anime studios are closing down and laying off employees.

The only things that make money are moe shit, re-hashes of classic series like Lupin or Gundam, and a handful of shounen ("for little boys") works that became huge over a decade ago. (One Piece being the most prominent)

abcdefg wrote:Well, I knew this was going to be a polemic choice for you but I'm one of those guys who tend to stay in the middle when there are very conflicting opinions on something. I like Haruhi, but don't love it to the point of buying toys and post in threads about weird pairings.


Well, I don't allow myself to be influenced by polemic opinions; I watched the series and made up my own mind. I thought the first episode was very good (to my initial surprise), the second was decent, but once I reached the third, it was all downhill from there...

I didn't call it "garbage", after all. It was just mediocre/pretty bad.

abcdefg wrote:Yeah, I am probably wrong, or maybe I tend to choose so accurately that I can avoid the shit that comes every season. But, as said, I don't say there isn't a problem with this trend, but in the end what we get from it is essentially the same as always. A few shows each year that are worth remembering, and that's all.


Well, that's the thing; from about 1995 to even 2008, there were indeed several works every year that were good.

Has that been the case during the past three years? From what I have seen, it hasn't. You would be hard-pressed to find 3 really good shows in these last 3 calender years.

As a result, I think anyone looking to enjoy quality art should take a gander at books, movies, or even manga, but not current anime. Virtually all of it is terrible.

Kojiless
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Re: anime movies for people who hate anime

Post by Kojiless »

Double post fail... Sorry about that...
Last edited by Kojiless on Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Kojiless
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Re: anime movies for people who hate anime

Post by Kojiless »

As always, I find myself late to the party...but better late than never, no? I was all ready to come in here, guns a-blazing...and then realized that ShogunRua had pretty much said everything I had on my mind... Oh well!

Having lived in Japan the past 16 years and, in than short span of time, watched anime degrade from "festering abscess on a hot supermodel" to "crusty, flaking bunion on a septuagenarian's withered toe," I am decidedly wary when Criticker (which is normally great at recommending me exactly what I want to see) says I'll absolutely adore "Tokyo Bubblegum Persimmonseed Robotto Boyfriend Uisshu 3."

I know there are a few hidden gems out there, but forgive me for not wanting to wade through a sea of noisome goo to find them. Though, you know what they say, "one man's goo is another man's gold," so I won't make any attempts to deter others from getting rich (or dying trying). :D

Luna6ix
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Re: anime movies for people who hate anime

Post by Luna6ix »

The purpose of this thread was to highlight the wide appeal anime movies out there, and we have named a few. Oddly enough this has stopped after, say twenty. I'd like to hear of more if there's anything else out there.

edkrak
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Re: anime movies for people who hate anime

Post by edkrak »

Luna6ix wrote: I'd like to hear of more if there's anything else out there.


I didn't check thoroughly which ones were mentioned earlier, so here are some less obvious choices:
Angel's Egg (1985)
Cat Soup (2001)
Barefoot Gen (1983)
Meikyû monogatari (1987)
Midori (1992)
Mind Game (2004)
A Country Doctor (2007)
Kanashimi no Beradona (1973) - Eiichi Yamamoto made also 2 other films in late 60s/early 70s that look very interesting: Cleopatra and 1001 Nights
Genius Party (2007) - there is also a sequel

ShogunRua
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Re: anime movies for people who hate anime

Post by ShogunRua »

edkrak wrote:Midori (1992)


Heh, I've only read the original manga, not the film adaptation, that's an unexpected choice.

Judging purely by the manga, while it's a grotesque and fucked-up story (good!), it's very average besides that. And since anime adaptations always tone down the violence, sex, and perversion of the original comic...

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