Sexism in Hollywood?

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cameron326
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Re: Sexism in Hollywood?

Post by cameron326 »

ShogunRua:
What if a woman doesn't WANT to become a director? What if that same woman wants to apply her talents and abilities in some other field, whether it's medicine, fashion, etc?

You're saying that's both wrong and a "tragedy"? No, I don't believe it is.


Firstly, do you really believe that women don't aspire to be directors? This is what your argument seems to be here. According to the statisitics I posted it would be appear that even less women want to be directors than they did ten years ago. Sounds strange to me - what happened in those ten years to make film in less attractive to women?
I think we will have to agree to disagree on this point.

Secondly, you conclude that the fact that women don't want to become directors (if this is the case) isn't necessarily a bad thing. Well, I think I've made my point clearly already. It is a bad thing as it means that the film industry is less rich than it could be if it had a much greater proportion of talented people putting their creativity into making films.

An example: In the UK only 10% around of men are primary school teachers. Having worked in the teaching profession myself, I can tell you that this is a bad thing. Men can bring different perspectives to teaching, can act as male role models for children from broken homes, and may have different approaches and interests that inspire chidlren.

In short, any creative profession, that is dominated entirely by one sex or race, is losing out on potential ideas, perspective and creativity. Also, having worked in the primary profession myself I can tell you that the social status of primary teaching as a female dominated profession seriously affects the number of men that consider joining the profession.


Oh and one last point - perhaps you shouldn't post things such as "super massive pissed off post" when referring to other posts. It just suggests that you didn't bother to read that person's post or are laughing at their post - not very respectful. Don't know if this was your intention. If you want to reply to the post as a whole, maybe its better to simply write the name of the person who wrote it, eg, @Joeblogs . . .

pilgermann
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Re: Sexism in Hollywood?

Post by pilgermann »

cameron326 wrote:These are not good debating techniques.


I wish to see hard evidence regarding debating techniques.

Pickpocket
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Re: Sexism in Hollywood?

Post by Pickpocket »

cameron326 wrote:It is tragedy. I play an instrument. If there were currently no worldclass female players of my instrument (there are at least half a dozen I can think of) I would consider it a tragedy. Why? Because women in the arts (notice I'm not talking about basketball, maths, gardening or anything else here) are as capable as men. Therefore if I can think of thirty famous male musicians (which I can) but can't name a single female musicians something is wrong.

All this proves is that you are ignorant and not very knowledgeable of music. I can name 50+ female musicians off the top of my head and some of them are actually pretty good. And I have no idea what this has to do with sexism in hollywood. But it has inspired me to go to my rich white guy meeting today and oppress some women

cameron326
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Re: Sexism in Hollywood?

Post by cameron326 »

All this proves is that you are ignorant and not very knowledgeable of music. I can name 50+ female musicians off the top of my head and some of them are actually pretty good.


My instrument. Which happens to be the trumpet. Please name 50 world class female trumpet players off the top off your head - Ready . . . 3,2,1, GO! . . . .

All your response proves is that you don't read very carefully, do you?

ShogunRua
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Re: Sexism in Hollywood?

Post by ShogunRua »

cameron326 wrote: It is not because you have superior inteleect


Sometimes the jokes just write themselves!

cameron326 wrote:Where is the "hard evidence" that Catherine Hardwicke was snubbed because she's a rubish director rather than being a woman? There is none.


Because she is a fucking shit director that has never directed a single action film, and felt that the dynamic between the Ward brothers (played by Bale and Wahlberg) should mirror that between the Edward and Jakob in Twilight?

Yeah, I have no idea why the producers of "The Fighter" weren't interested in her, and chose David O Russell instead. Clearly, it was because of her gender!

cameron326 wrote:Firstly, do you really believe that women don't aspire to be directors? This is what your argument seems to be here. According to the statisitics I posted it would be appear that even less women want to be directors than they did ten years ago. Sounds strange to me - what happened in those ten years to make film in less attractive to women?
I think we will have to agree to disagree on this point.


Many women don't want to become directors, difficult as it may be for you to grasp. Who are you to tell them they're wrong, and need to conform to what you feel they should be interested in? Sounds pretty sexist to me!

With what KGB and Anomaly have said, there seem to be more women in film school than ever, so perhaps in 10-20 years, we will see a lot more young female directors. Great. Personally, I don't care whether someone is a man, woman, or hermaphrodite, white, black, or green; I just want more talented directors making good movies.

In the meantime though, we can read more indignant Internet posts about vague, shadowy "evil rich old white men" on the basis of the IMDB ratings of Nolan films.

Dorkovsky
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Re: Sexism in Hollywood?

Post by Dorkovsky »

You seem to have difficulty grasping a relatively simple premise. a Man denying the existence of Sexism is analogous to a White denying Racism. Of course you aren't going to experience it, but by not even acknowledging it makes you part of the problem w/r/t women's rights movement.

Anomaly
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Re: Sexism in Hollywood?

Post by Anomaly »

paulofilmo wrote:I remember watching a documentary (a Horizon style one--if anyone knows what it was, let me know) about genetics/altruism/the selfish gene, and one of the light-bulb moments boiled down to the willingness for men to take risks and live to extremes. They become businessmen, criminals, work on the stock market, commit suicide. While this may apply to the willingness to take responsibility of the role of Director, I think it's also germane to why we like male protagonists

The real question here is how much of that is a natural attribute of the sexes, and how much of that is instilled in us by society.

cameron326
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Re: Sexism in Hollywood?

Post by cameron326 »

Shogunrua
Sometimes the jokes just write themselves!

It's called a typo.

Because she is a fucking shit director that has never directed a single action film, and felt that the dynamic between the Ward brothers (played by Bale and Wahlberg) should mirror that between the Edward and Jakob in Twilight?


I was actually agreeing with you that she is a shit director.

Many women don't want to become directors, difficult as it may be for you to grasp

I never once claimed that all women should want to become directors. Don't put words in my mouth.

I like a lively debate, but it seems on here that many posters - eg - Pickpocket (see above: trumpet players vs musicians) can't even be bothered to read what others are writing carefully. So what's the point.

ShogunRua
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Re: Sexism in Hollywood?

Post by ShogunRua »

kyle.loomis wrote:You seem to have difficulty grasping a relatively simple premise. a Man denying the existence of Sexism is analogous to a White denying Racism. Of course you aren't going to experience it, but by not even acknowledging it makes you part of the problem w/r/t women's rights movement.


That's a very bigoted perspective, by the way; why do you think white people are incapable of experiencing racism? My friends and I have been called "honky", "whitey", and excluded by people of Asian races on numerous occasions.

By the way, I'm not even denying that there is sexism in the very specific area of Hollywood. I'm just saying that IMDB ratings of Nolan films and Catherine Hardwicke not getting to direct "The Fighter" aren't exactly overwhelming evidence.

cameron wrote:I was actually agreeing with you that she is a shit director.


But then you oddly noted that it might have been because she was a female, no? I guess if a six year old girl wanted to direct "The Fighter" and was unsuccessful, it also might have been because of gender, right?

cameron wrote:I never once claimed that all women should want to become directors. Don't put words in my mouth.


But then you noted it was a tragedy that most directors are males. Tell me, is it a tragedy that most fashion designers or wedding planners are women? Clearly, men have been the victim of horrible sexism in those two industries, correct?

Dorkovsky
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Re: Sexism in Hollywood?

Post by Dorkovsky »

Name-calling is one of the least effective forms of racism. Overwhelming poverty, unemployment, incarceration rates, infant mortality, etc., these are all much more serious and as a white person you are completely safe from these prejudices.

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