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subjective/objective standards

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AFlickering
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subjective/objective standards

Postby AFlickering » Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:19 pm

Do you let even your most obscure personal quirks affect your rankings? If you can tell a film is really well made, but something trivial about it repels you, what sort of rating are you likely to give it? What about if it seems like it should be awesome but you're not really getting it?

TheAlliance
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Re: subjective/objective standards

Postby TheAlliance » Sat Mar 01, 2008 12:46 am

I think everyone has a hard time sometimes rating certain films, i usually check my rankings and try the find the right spot for the movie that way, and i sometimes end up lowering later, after i totally forgot the feeling i had about the movie, and i only remember the storyline/level of acting etc.

Also sometimes i miss something, you know.. like a message the movie was trying to tell me and i read about it later on imdb's faq/trivia page for example, since i always read those pages before rating a movie i think it has a slight effect on my judging, i think i end up rating it just a bit higher.

If it should be awesome and i don't 'get it' or see why it's so good i don't rate it higher then what i really thought about it, for example Casablanca. I'm pretty sure i am missing something here, why is this movie SO special, so highly rated? I believe Kevin Spacey once said something about Ingrid Bergman when he was being interviewed In 'Inside The Actors Studio', well.. I can't say Bergman was that supergood in Casablanca, not saying she was bad.. But i guess i just missed something.. i even watched it agian to give it another try, but nothing :) (I very rarely watch films 2 or more times).

KGB
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Re: subjective/objective standards

Postby KGB » Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:59 am

Sometime I see a film and I can tell it's a masterpiece, but I just can't seem to connect to it. It happened to me lately with 'The Trial': the production value is amazing, and Orson Welles' didn't lose a bit of his touch since 'Citizen Kane'. But yet... I just don't know. I wasn't very interested; the first 30 minutes were great, and the ending was the kind of shit that can make someone hang himself, but I just didn't get into it.
It also happened to me in '8 1/2'. As Woody Allen once said in the awfully mediocre 'Hollywood Ending', even a director with an artistic view has to think about his audience; a man that thinks only about his porpuse is a narcisist, an 'artistic masturbation' or something like that*. '8 1/2' Was technically perfect, perfect cinematography, shooting, whatever. Visually, it was a masterpiece. But on the surface... Gee, it was fucking boring. I didn't get into it one little bit. Fellini made this semi-autobiographical film probably just to satisfy his own needs, and to cover that he adds a critic that indirectly points out every little thing that's wrong about this film (the film is full of self-references, which is probably the only thing that kept me awake). The ending was beautiful, though, but... Yeah, I did see about 20 minutes of it in fast forward. Can't deny.


*Hey, Woody, if you have something actually cool to say, you can tell it in your next interview. There's no need to put it into one of your mediocre films, but then again, that's just you, isn't it? Putting whatever comes to your mind on a boring script? Yeah, that's you. Good boy.

CCLZA
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Re: subjective/objective standards

Postby CCLZA » Sat Mar 01, 2008 9:27 am

TheAlliance wrote:I think everyone has a hard time sometimes rating certain films, i usually check my rankings and try the find the right spot for the movie that way, and i sometimes end up lowering later, after i totally forgot the feeling i had about the movie, and i only remember the storyline/level of acting etc.

Also sometimes i miss something, you know.. like a message the movie was trying to tell me and i read about it later on imdb's faq/trivia page for example, since i always read those pages before rating a movie i think it has a slight effect on my judging, i think i end up rating it just a bit higher.

If it should be awesome and i don't 'get it' or see why it's so good i don't rate it higher then what i really thought about it, for example Casablanca. I'm pretty sure i am missing something here, why is this movie SO special, so highly rated? I believe Kevin Spacey once said something about Ingrid Bergman when he was being interviewed In 'Inside The Actors Studio', well.. I can't say Bergman was that supergood in Casablanca, not saying she was bad.. But i guess i just missed something.. i even watched it agian to give it another try, but nothing :) (I very rarely watch films 2 or more times).

Scottathon
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Re: subjective/objective standards

Postby Scottathon » Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:49 pm

My personal quirks have a substantial impact on my rankings. I'm pretty uneducated when it comes to film, so I don't have much else to go by. I have been trying to familiarize myself with film canon, and as much as I wouldn't like it to, it often does have some influence on my rankings.

AFlickering
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Re: subjective/objective standards

Postby AFlickering » Sat Mar 01, 2008 5:46 pm

Scottathon wrote:My personal quirks have a substantial impact on my rankings. I'm pretty uneducated when it comes to film, so I don't have much else to go by. I have been trying to familiarize myself with film canon, and as much as I wouldn't like it to, it often does have some influence on my rankings.


I think it's very easy to become over-educated. Obviously, it's good to get rid of basic ignorance about film, and it's cool to get in the habit of analysing things, but ultimately I say go with your gut. There's too many people who believe Citizen Kane is the benchmark for greatness just 'cause critics think it is, or that glossy blockbusters automatically don't have substance, etcetc. In other words, I encourage people to focus on their own reactions to films, rather than trying to apply some intellectual notion of quality they picked up from film school. Dunno, maybe I'm attacking a strawman, but still. Often I find it really enlightening about both the film and myself when I think about why I hated a highly acclaimed film or loved a failure, and it's really easy just to pass it off as "it's not my thing but it's objectively great" or whatever. I like to see people justify even their most bizarre opinions, 'cause as far as I'm concerned those people are often the most interesting and insightful critics to read, even if I don't often agree. That's the only plausible reason for why I read madmen like Rosenbaum and Gonzalez, haha.

Anyway, as an extreme example of what I was initially thinking of with this thread, imagine someone who gave every Bunuel film 100 solely because they shared his foot fetish. :mrgreen:

KGB
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Re: subjective/objective standards

Postby KGB » Sat Mar 01, 2008 6:31 pm

I, for once, can't understand how people find a film like 'Citizen Kane' boring. The characters are so great and the script is so good (and that's just when it comes to the storyline), that there's simply no time to be bored.
It's such a shame the film's ending serves as the one spoiler that is always revealed when someone has the need to use a spoiler as a joke (see the case of 'Family Guy', it's a great joke but such a shame the ending had to be revealed). I honestly have no idea how I managed to see 'Citizen Kane' without knowing how it ends, but my heart was broken to pieces as the film ended and
Spoiler: show
the sledge went on fire
. Jesus, is it one of the best films ever or what?

AFlickering
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Re: subjective/objective standards

Postby AFlickering » Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:59 pm

I wouldn't argue with that.

Bojangles
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Re: subjective/objective standards

Postby Bojangles » Sun Mar 02, 2008 7:01 pm

I don't have any film education, I just rate based on if a movie has a lasting effect on me, or if it looks really good. I often get annoyed by some movies that get lazy and do things like zoom way too often, because tracking always looks better. Also I honestly hate when people only love films from obscure directors and refuse to acknowledge anything mainstream. Oh wow look at you, you're so refined and artistic...faggot.

KGB
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Re: subjective/objective standards

Postby KGB » Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:17 pm

You can't blame people for liking films more subtle and technically sofisticated or obscure, just as they can't blame you for liking the opposite ("oh wow look at you, you go along with the trend... faggot").


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