Is Hollywood in the Dark Ages right now?

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m3tan
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Is Hollywood in the Dark Ages right now?

Post by m3tan »

I'm a huge film buff yet have found it increasingly difficult to actually enjoy going to the movies these days. It has become a chore scouring through online reviews to find the one or two mainstream releases that might have potential. I'm almost always disappointed. It seems so much easier to stream an older movie or a foreign film at home. I remember being wowed on a regular basis by films I saw in the theater in the 90s - Schnindler's List, Shawshank Redemption, Pulp Fiction, Matrix, Braveheart, Usual Suspects, LA Confidential... the list goes on and on. Now I think it happens once every five years (12 Years A Slave and Inglorious Basterds are the only two I can think of). I haven't seen a Hollywood blockbuster in over a decade that I felt was Oscar worthy (last was LOTR). I mean if you're not into super hero adaptations, it's really slim pickings. Inception was OK but how many years ago was that now???

I took a look at my films rated over 90%. There are 11 from the 90s, 10 from the 80s, 7 from the 70s. But only 5 (Inglorious Basterds, 12 Years A Slave, Children of Men, No Country for Old Men, and Memento) since 2000. That's 5 in 14 years after averaging about 1/yr for the preceding 30 years. A quick glance of the AFI Top 100 yields similar results: 11 from the 90s, 8 from the 80s, 19 from the 70s, and ONE movie made since 2000 out of 100!!! Granted the list was published in 2007 but I don't think we've had many serious candidates for cracking the list since then. I'd guess 12 Years A Slave, Avatar, No Country for Old Men, There Will Be Blood, and maybe a couple others.

Do others agree that it's increasingly hard to find great mainstream films these days?
Last edited by m3tan on Mon May 05, 2014 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

LowOiL
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Re: Is Hollywood in the Dark Ages right now?

Post by LowOiL »

Great rant, thus the reason I decided to give this web site a try in hopes that I just wasn't looking hard enough. I haven't really got the results I wanted via their suggested movies, but looking at other's top rated movies has shown a few I will try. I have started going back in time viewing some vintage films and have had some fair results. I sacrifice some film advantages (color, scenery, dpi) just for a good plot. I tire of cursing/profanity being a crutch Hollywood seems to lean upon more and more. I don't mind a word here and there, but moderation seems to have flew the coop. I miss character building of people I want to win in the end. Now days half the people I don't care if they win or not. I miss where the imagination was enough to keep a boy's mind interested and not mindless nudity.

Perhaps some new directors will start pulling some older better books into movie ideas, other than comic book characters. An example of a good movie would be "The Crystal Cave" Mary Stewart remaking of the King Author and Merlin series. Just hints of magic, not overwhelming stuff we get today. Mystery and subtleness are missing in this video game world of movie making.

ShogunRua
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Re: Is Hollywood in the Dark Ages right now?

Post by ShogunRua »

m3tan wrote:
Do others agree that it's increasingly hard to find great mainstream films these days?


Yes.

While I disagree with you about some of the specific movies above, I agree with your overall sentiment.

I was just thinking about this the last time I went to the theater. (back in January of this year to see Her, the first time I had gone since 2012) Despite the hype, it was a barely average flick.

However, I spent $12 to see it in theaters, spent time and gas money driving there, and had to endure 20 minutes of soul-numbing torture while the trailers played. Meanwhile, I could have saved a lot of time and money by staying at home and watching a picture on my laptop that I probably would have enjoyed more, anyways.

Nevermind the fact that I can start and stop a picture at home whenever I want, another major advantage.

Hollywood makes more and more pictures designed to "hit all 4 quadrants" in movie talk terms, resulting in sterile, cliched, pretty-looking borefests I have no interest in seeing.

m3tan
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Re: Is Hollywood in the Dark Ages right now?

Post by m3tan »

ShogunRua wrote:I was just thinking about this the last time I went to the theater. (back in January of this year to see Her, the first time I had gone since 2012) Despite the hype, it was a barely average flick.


That's disheartening to hear as I've been disappointed by all the best picture nominees except for 12 Years A Slave. I was/am holding out hope for Her. While I thought American Hustle, Dallas Buyer's Club, Gravity, Captain Phillips, and the Wolf of Wall Street were all decent, I walked out of each and everyone scratching my head saying "Best picture? Really???" I thought 12 Years A Slave was hands down Best Picture but I'm not sure I actually "enjoyed" it. The only movie I saw in the theater I actually ENJOYED in the past year was Hotel Grand Budapest. It seems I can always count on Wes Anderson...

Mentaculus
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Re: Is Hollywood in the Dark Ages right now?

Post by Mentaculus »

I think there are many concurrent factors at play here. One is Economic: To ShogunRua's point, it's much easier and cost-efficient to stay home and stream 10 past Best Picture nominees than go see One Possibly Crappy Movie, so people naturally don't see as many. The other is Experiential/Social: When I recently saw the Robocop remake (yeah I know, I don't know why I was there either) there was a huge family who must have thought "PG-13" was a challenge to bring as many under-13-year-olds in as possible, with a 5-course meal for extra credit. It was the only time I have ever asked someone to be quiet in a movie theater, and I generally think it's OK, even awesome, to have an audience "interact" with a film by booing, hissing, laughing, screaming, so on. The Dad then shouted some expletives at me about a free country and the cost of admission and so on. I think there is a popular notion, unverifiable sure, that this behavior is becoming more commonplace.

But a big one, I think, is that history and distribution determine the ultimate value of a film. There are films that will come out this year that will become Masterpieces of film art and craft, and you probably won't see many of them until years from now, due to time, money, or your local theater and Netflix don't have it. With perhaps the exception of the 1939 Banner Year, every year looks like a crappy year in mainstream film, with a few great ones, until you go back and see what you missed (2006, I'm looking at you...). Plus, films that are popular, by some measure, have been proven to be worth your time. History does not remember 1938's The Patient in Room 18 as fondly as it does The Adventures of Robin Hood.

Film has always been a business for the lowest common denominator and there will always be a ratio of 80% stinkers to 20% worthwhile, if you take off the rose-colored glasses for the Silver Screen years. You've only seen the ones that've made it. Shawshank Redemption famously made jack in its original run.

IMO, I also really want to enjoy new movies. Heck, I thought Robocop (2013) was pretty OK.

ShogunRua
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Re: Is Hollywood in the Dark Ages right now?

Post by ShogunRua »

jacobb1313 wrote:I think there are many concurrent factors at play here. One is Economic: To ShogunRua's point, it's much easier and cost-efficient to stay home and stream 10 past Best Picture nominees than go see One Possibly Crappy Movie, so people naturally don't see as many. The other is Experiential/Social: When I recently saw the Robocop remake (yeah I know, I don't know why I was there either) there was a huge family who must have thought "PG-13" was a challenge to bring as many under-13-year-olds in as possible, with a 5-course meal for extra credit. It was the only time I have ever asked someone to be quiet in a movie theater, and I generally think it's OK, even awesome, to have an audience "interact" with a film by booing, hissing, laughing, screaming, so on. The Dad then shouted some expletives at me about a free country and the cost of admission and so on. I think there is a popular notion, unverifiable sure, that this behavior is becoming more commonplace.


Should have replied with "It sure is a free country! How about the right to get your ass kicked in front of your entire family?"

jacobb wrote:Film has always been a business for the lowest common denominator


I agree with most of your post, but not this point. No, film was not always like this. Not even close, actually.

In the 70s, pictures like Network or Last Tango in Paris were wildly popular. Serious, mature entertainment meant for adults. It was the decade of the director.

It was only thanks to the insane success of Jaws and Star Wars that studios realized they could make far more money with mass entertainment blockbusters, and mainstream movies have been made for an increasingly younger, simpler audience ever since.

Mainstreams movies weren't always made for 8 year-olds like they are now. Nor were 18-40 year-olds as gleeful at the prospect of watching these glorified kids' flicks.

jacobb wrote: and there will always be a ratio of 80% stinkers to 20% worthwhile,


I only wish the percentages were this good! For myself, I'm not even sure it's as high as 10% worthwhile.

Stewball
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Re: Is Hollywood in the Dark Ages right now?

Post by Stewball »

m3tan wrote:Do others agree that it's increasingly hard to find great mainstream films these days?


No, I think this is the golden age of film. Of my 90s or above over 60% are 2000 or later. Granted, I haven't gone back and rated that many, but trust me it wouldn't help. Often when I do go back, particularly before the 80s, I don't even make it through because it's a boring story, poorly acted, just stupid or whatever. I honestly don't know what the problem is. People say they want subtlety, but when they get it, they think it's boring. Shogun doesn't like Her, while I think it's the best movie ever made. Yeah, the market is flooded with brain dead horror, superheros and pointless action movies. It's a death sentence for a movie to be known for it's dialogue. My second favorite movie last year, The Counselor, had the best dialogue in years, and some pretty good action, but it required thought to "get it". I think so many people may be down on movies because they don't want to be challenged, they want to escape for a couple of hours.

LowOil wrote:I miss character building of people I want to win in the end.


I just saw a little Indie gem that fits that to a T, Hateship, Loveship. About the only thing I didn't like about it was the title (How to Get What You Want would have been perfect), but it's been beat down by critics and the public as well, and you'd probably see it as a "chick flick". I think quality is out there, better than ever, but so is the crap.

It think as a group, men are big part of the problem, but I don't know why except they prefer sports to fiction; which steers movies in the direction of women, and they like being challenged less than men.

ShogunRua
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Re: Is Hollywood in the Dark Ages right now?

Post by ShogunRua »

Stewball wrote:It think as a group, men are big part of the problem, but I don't know why except they prefer sports to fiction; which steers movies in the direction of women, and they like being challenged less than men.


This is dumb. Neither gender is the problem, and I can prove it. How?

Because as noted above, movies today are produced to "hit all 4 quadrants". That means appealing to boys, men, girls, and women. The shit today is what happens when you try to appeal to as wide a demographic as possible.

There are far fewer movies made today specifically with men in mind, but there are also fewer pictures made for women, too.

Stewball
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Re: Is Hollywood in the Dark Ages right now?

Post by Stewball »

ShogunRua wrote:This is dumb.


Well, thanks for the considered analysis.

Neither gender is the problem, and I can prove it. How?

Because as noted above, movies today are produced to "hit all 4 quadrants". That means appealing to boys, men, girls, and women. The shit today is what happens when you try to appeal to as wide a demographic as possible.

There are far fewer movies made today specifically with men in mind, but there are also fewer pictures made for women, too.


Your last paragraph argues against the one before, much less is it proof. And I think children are a fifth quadrant as well. The better movies for them are made to have some appeal for adults. Teenagers have different tastes. The want date movies, or movies to go out with the gang or gender group--but all are necessarily mindless, crummier than the movies they were taken to as children. As they become adults, they gradually polarize into the entertainment and entertainment with meat on it groups. All-in-all there's probably 10 or 12 fan categories, each with sub-categories according to race, religion, potty-humor, predilection to watch movies in the first place and on and on. It isn't as simple as hitting all the quadrants.

How is it there are fewer pictures for women? Probably 70% of adult fare is viewed by men as chick flicks. If you're saying there's a lot of extraneous trash out there for teeny-boppers and young adults, I agree, but the market isn't flooded with them, and they sort of shame the studios into making at least some quality stuff--the suits try at least and some do get made.

A lot of what you call "shit", is liked and admired by a good and or large majority. Does that make you wrong? Of course not, but it doesn't make you right either. Your "shit" is yours.

mattorama12
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Re: Is Hollywood in the Dark Ages right now?

Post by mattorama12 »

Stewball wrote: All-in-all there's probably 10 or 12 fan categories, each with sub-categories according to race, religion, potty-humor, predilection to watch movies in the first place and on and on. It isn't as simple as hitting all the quadrants.


Of course you can break down the four quadrants into smaller subgroups. But that's missing the point. The point is simply that you (you = producer) want to make a film that hits in all four quadrants. If you can make a film that hits equally strong in all 10-12 or however many arbitrarily more defined groups you want to look at, all the better. But the focus at the marketing level in the film industry is the four. Here's a good overview on the topic that I read at some prior time when I heard the term.

I think there's something to be said for the "four quadrant" approach leading to some bad Hollywood fare. But, I also think there's a whole lot of great movies coming out these days. The accessibility of cameras and computers for editing and distributing movies has allowed for some creativity outside of the Hollywood machine. There are tons more documentaries coming out today than did 20 years ago, and a lot of them are fantastic. To focus even on Hollywood, though, I don't think it's in its Dark Ages. It certainly isn't where it was in the 70s, but even a lot of the 70s greats were outside the mainstream Hollywood machine.

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