Female dialogue in 2016’s biggest movies, visualized

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dardan
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Female dialogue in 2016’s biggest movies, visualized

Post by dardan »

Link: https://proquestionasker.github.io/proj ... teractive/

Rogue One had a 93% male cast and 83% male dialogue. The creators of Rogue One received buckets of hate on the basis of it supposedly being too inclusive. These are facts.

Also:

the audience demographics for "Rogue One" this weekend were 59% male and 41% female, while 26% were between the age of 26 and 34, according to data shared by the studio.

http://www.ktxs.com/news/rogue-one-land ... /221367333

and in general:

(paraphrased) Only 15% of the main characters in the Top 100 grossing films of 2013 were women, even though 52% of the moviegoer audience are women.

http://brandongaille.com/21-fantastic-m ... ographics/

So, what the hell? Even though I haven't seen Rogue One, it seems that it'd be quite difiicult to have a movie in which 93% of the cast is male and 83% of the dialogue is spoken by men and still be pissed to the extent that so many apparently were. Maybe the problem wasn't the amount of dialogue, but rather the roles women were given? Is there any merit to the idea that Leila, relative to women in Rogue One, was a 'damsel in distress' type character and thereby posed no threat to the fragile egos of certain men?

Lastly, what to make of this still massive disparity in the amount of dialogue men and women get?

djross
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Re: Female dialogue in 2016’s biggest movies, visualized

Post by djross »

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ehk2
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Re: Female dialogue in 2016’s biggest movies, visualized

Post by ehk2 »

djross wrote: There is reason to doubt whether the solution to such problems is to make movies about female superheroes or galactic heroines, or to insist on more "strong female roles" in general, or to insist on more movies about women triumphing in male-dominated professions .


perfect

mattorama12
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Re: Female dialogue in 2016’s biggest movies, visualized

Post by mattorama12 »

djross wrote:Can't see why I should care about the degree to which Star Wars is a mindless mass product targeted at boys (of all ages) rather than a mindless mass product targeted at boys and girls (of all ages). Doesn't seem to me that the latter alternative is doing girls any great favours.


I think there's an argument that it actually matters more for movies that are "mindless mass product." Whether you find those movies worthy of your time, it's right there in your own words--it's a mass product. Because of that, it reaches more people than more serious films. And since it's not of great artistic weight, maybe it's even more necessary that it seeks to achieve some other social goal, like demonstrating that women can be the hero of their own story, and not just an accessory.

There is reason to doubt whether the solution to such problems is to make movies about female superheroes or galactic heroines, or to insist on more "strong female roles" in general, or to insist on more movies about women triumphing in male-dominated professions.


What I'm mostly curious about is the use of the word "insist" here. Just for the sake of argument, let's say that everybody agrees that there is a problem, and that more movies about women triumphing in male-dominated professions would fix/alleviate that problem. What's the mechanism for achieving that goal? By "insist," do we mean that we, the audience, should insist by voting with our wallets, waging twitter wars, and writing think pieces? Or do we mean that producers, writers, and directors have an obligation to make these kinds of movies, audience demand be damned?

By the way, this is the same problem I see with the media. Almost everybody agrees we would all be better off if the media focused on real journalism, rather than just the most salacious stories. But, it's hard for me to blame consumers when the media offers easy-to-digest garbage and it's hard to blame the media when their revenue comes from consumers who click more on easy-to-digest garbage. Or maybe it's super easy for me to blame both sides. I don't know.

dardan
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Re: Female dialogue in 2016’s biggest movies, visualized

Post by dardan »

Unlike what the text below suggests, everything stated is tentative, contingent upon the ways actual biological differences (which I assume to be many and in some of those cases profound) have formed structures mutually exclusive with the theoretical reasoning of 'making everything equal' that the provided arguments are partial corollaries of.

I would assume the disparity in dialogue and role-distribution is both a reflection and causational force of internalised norms regulative of barriers and rules through which, in the status quo, men ought to be defaulted such attention and roles. This then inflicts harm to the extent that talent is surpressed and incompetence overrated (e.g. Clinton vs. Trump). It doesn't not matter because these movies are mass-trash, as it is precisely the mass-consumption of the symbols and dynamics out of which it unavoidably is composed, and whose weight of the existence and non-existence of both social dynamics and rules between sexes still is very substantial, that these movies do in fact contribute in a meaningful way to culture.

Additionally, the problem wouldn't be that in the past these films were targeted at boys, but that these films were aimed at archaic narratives disproportionally held by boys (and also in large numbers by girls), and that those currently in fervent opposition to any change to said dynamics--despite overwhelming evidence still pointing to the contrary--are fragile butthurts.

most of the male writers and directors aren't very good at writing female parts... genuine ways about female experience.


Insofar as this counts for the more superficial planes of human identity I agree, but when it comes to putting to screen more intricate depths I believe men, due to the alexithymia that to some extent inheres in all, are better able to portray women than women themselves.

That all said, the point of the post was to elucidate on the mechanisms by which so many felt it necessary to be so opposed to a film absolutely unfavourable to the groups it is claimed to be slanted towards. It might deviate from the norm, but the norm might be a far greater deviation itself.

djross
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Re: Female dialogue in 2016’s biggest movies, visualized

Post by djross »

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dardan
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Re: Female dialogue in 2016’s biggest movies, visualized

Post by dardan »

djross wrote:
dardan wrote: It doesn't not matter because these movies are mass-trash, as it is precisely the mass-consumption of the symbols and dynamics out of which it unavoidably is composed, and whose weight of the existence and non-existence of both social dynamics and rules between sexes still is very substantial, that these movies do in fact contribute in a meaningful way to culture.


Not convinced by this analysis.


Then what do you consider to be sources of culture and norms according to which social dynamics are bounded?

paulofilmo
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Re: Female dialogue in 2016’s biggest movies, visualized

Post by paulofilmo »

dardan wrote:Then what do you consider to be sources of culture and norms according to which social dynamics are bounded?


Can I get a ELI5 for this sentence? I haven't been in an education environment in a long time, and I'm struggling to follow.

here's an old post, but i'm not sure if it's relevant. (the last paragraph still seems reasonable to me, and i'm not surprised that these action/adventure movies are male dominated.)

dardan
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Re: Female dialogue in 2016’s biggest movies, visualized

Post by dardan »

paulofilmo wrote:
dardan wrote:Then what do you consider to be sources of culture and norms according to which social dynamics are bounded?


Can I get a ELI5 for this sentence? I haven't been in an education environment in a long time, and I'm struggling to follow.


Social dynamics in the state of nature would be described by Hobbes as being hostile: a war of all against all. However, these natural dynamics can be bounded by, among other things, norms, and if done right it should prevent stuff from going out of control.

djross
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Re: Female dialogue in 2016’s biggest movies, visualized

Post by djross »

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