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RULES that help you decide how to vote

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livelove
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RULES that help you decide how to vote

Postby livelove » Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:44 pm

There is 1 thing I have been dreaming of for a very long time:
guidelines that help me decide how to vote

I often struggle how to accurately score a movie in a way that corresponds to my appreciation of it.
see:

Something that would help me decide what number to put on a movie and to also avoid the rock/paper/scissors problem would be unequivocal guidelines.
In other words: Defining what the numbers mean.
But by imposing requirements that are as specific as possible (as opposed to a nondescript "not that hot").

I rate on a 0-100 scale in steps of 5.

The only 2 numbers to which I managed to attribute a very specific, fixed meaning are:

  • 0: unwatchable and/or "so bad that it's funny"
  • 5: almost unwatchable: extremely boring and/or bad


When a movie satisfies these specific criteria, I can come up with a vote
  • – immediately
  • – and feel sure about it

It's much more easy for me to evaluate whether a movie meets specific verbalized criteria than to express my feelings in a numerical form ("is this film a 60 or 65?").

I often could puzzle my head about the exact number I should give a movie, but for those two to "verbalized rankings" I can decide within seconds.

So my hope was to come up with specific requirements for the rest of my ranking scale.
However I never quite managed to find unambiguous criteria (i.e. that could help distinguish 30 from 35 for example).

Some "quips" I came up with:

  • 10: boring. made it through, but just narrowly. There was nothing likeable in the film.
  • 15: boring. made it through, but just narrowly. There was almost nothing likeable in the film.
  • 20: regret watching (would have preferred not to see). There was not a lot I liked.
  • 25: passes the time. unsure whether I regret watching
  • 30: passes the time. no regrets watching
  • 35: somewhat enjoyable - but no loss if never seen
  • 40: worth the time - would have been a bit of a loss if never seen
  • 45: worth the time - would have been a loss if never seen


But I was unable to carry on up to 100.
And I also realized that even these criteria
– tend to overlap or not easily translate into numbers (e.g. the degree to which I regret watching the movie)
– and worse, they sometimes pose the same challenge as numbers (e.g. to what degree would it have been a loss if I had not seen the movie).

So my hope was that maybe you have already found or could come up with a voting system that offers unique criteria for as much shades as possible (ideally 20).
Last edited by livelove on Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:27 am, edited 2 times in total.

antidood1
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Re: RULES that help you decide how to vote

Postby antidood1 » Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:37 pm

I absolutely relate to your struggle, and I admire your efforts in coming up with specific quips for each one of your ratings. However, I don't think a system like that would ever work for me, for the simple reason that movies can end up having the same score for completely different reasons. The best examples of this usually end up in the middle range, where I put well-made unambitious movies, as well as flawed movies with very high ambitions. For example:


Does that mean that Enter the Void and Grabbers are on the same level? That they're comparable? Not really, they're different in almost every possible way.

In other words: I feel like no quip could ever be inclusive enough to take all of this into account. I feel like any rating system for movies is going to be flawed anyways – I didn't even mention how to deal with your own changing taste over time – so my strategy right now is to not take it all too seriously and basically just make it up as I go along. After scoring almost a thousand movies, I actually have a pretty good idea of what each score represents (although, again, this changes over time), and although I can't exactly put it into words, it's usually clear enough for me to "know" what score a movie should get.

livelove
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Re: RULES that help you decide how to vote

Postby livelove » Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:31 pm

Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts and reading mine.

I'm also afraid that this system might not work, and – as you have read – I shared the problems I encountered so far. But I have not given up hope yet.

I understand your caveat about very different movies sharing the same vote. I guess in these instances, the challenge is to find the right criterion.

As an example, let's take 3 movies I would all rank 0 but for different reasons:
– a film that's so extremely brutal that it's unbearable to watch
- a film that is or tries to be artsy in such an extremely boring way (nothing happens at all) that it's unbearable to watch
– a film that so bad that it's funny

These 3 films are all zeroes in my book. Does that mean they are ...

antidood1 wrote: ... are on the same level? That they're comparable? Not really, they're different in almost every possible way.
Exactly. The same is true for my 3 movies.

If I use your criterion of the ambitiousness of a movie, I would end up ranking them: 15, 100, 0 (in that order).

But the way I defined my score of 0 permits me to score them according to my real appreciation of them (i.e. how much I liked watching them). So you see it's a question about finding the right criteria.


antidood1 wrote:so my strategy right now is to not take it all too seriously and basically just make it up as I go along. After scoring almost a thousand movies, I actually have a pretty good idea of what each score represents (although, again, this changes over time), and although I can't exactly put it into words, it's usually clear enough for me to "know" what score a movie should get.
I get you. My approach used to be and unfortunately still is the same ... pending a good voting system. Sometimes your approach works for me. But other times, it doesn't and I end up running into something I hate: the rock/paper/scissors problem, mostly because
  • • when I compare movies to each other, I just compare them to the ones I saw in recent weeks (so that the feeling is still fresh in my mind), therefore my points of reference inevitably change
  • • when I don't compare movies to each other but just vote as a spur of the moment type of thing, my votes feel out of place when (later) comparing them to other movies

One solution suggested to me was to always use the same archetypical movies as reference. But then the problem is that the elapsed time (since last seeing them) increases more and more and therefore even if the reference movies themselves don't change, my feelings about them might, so I end up with exactly the same problem: changing reference points.

So the solution for me would be to use fixed reference points. Not specific other movies to compare to. But, as I said in my OP, specific criteria for a movie.

BTW, I added changing taste over time to the OP in case you want to comment there, too :)

ribcage
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Re: RULES that help you decide how to vote

Postby ribcage » Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:45 pm

100-90 masterpiece or not, i can sit down and watch these movies at any time. Always in the mood for these
89-80 great movies that have either minor but obvious issues or need a certain mood to watch (whether that's a mood for action or child killing drama)
79-70 this is my realm for entertaining stuff that doesn't stand out much
69-60 still entertaining but starting to show some seams
59-50 worth a watch for specific interests, ie genre movies, or fans of involved cast or crew, but an avoid for everyone else.
49-30 varying degrees of bad, but the kind you might have fun with or i might accidentally watch again thinking it might not have been as bad as i thought
29-1 varying degrees of bad where i was angry or annoyed most of the film but made it through
0 watched more than half of the movie but turned it off before finishing

ecalder
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Re: RULES that help you decide how to vote

Postby ecalder » Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:53 pm

I base mine on the old 0-4 ratings

I start with 0 is just horrible, worst movies ever
.5 pretty close but something redeeming
1 straight up bad but something coherent
1.5 approaching ehhh
2 ehhhh
2.5 I liked it but forgetable
3 good
3.5 among my favorites
4 classic

Then I convert

0=10
.5=20
1=30
1.5=40
2=50
2.5=60
3=70
3.5=80
4=90

I then go between the chosen ratings and based on was it closer to the higher or lower rating. For instance If I give it a 2.5 was it closer to a 3 or a 2 and then go up or down for 60 based upon that. If it is just a strong 2.5 i'll give it a 60. If it was really a toss up between 2 and 2.5 I'll go 55. A little lower than a strong 2.5 I'll go 58 or 59 etc. A little strong 61, 62 etc.

With the 0 and 4 ratings there is the remainder 5 and lower or 95 and higher for the truly classic good and bad

For instance a recent rating of mine was Next Friday at 53. So first I give it a 2. It was ehhhh. I then ask myself was it closer to a 2.5 or 1.5. I decided there were some funny parts and I did like the continuation of the characters from Friday so it had a few positives and it was closer to the 2.5 than the 1.5 but not enough to get to a tossup at 55. It made strong strides to the tossup but not enough so I went 53. It ends up scoring a 30% for me.

CosmicMonkey
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Re: RULES that help you decide how to vote

Postby CosmicMonkey » Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:23 pm

The only kinda have two strict-ish rules that I use for rating. The first is whether things score above or below a passing mark of 50. If at any point the film felt like a chore to watch It scores below a 50. If was able to make it to the end without wanting to turn it off or watch something else, even if I didn't like it, it'll get above a 50.

The other is rule is that a completely average movie that I feel completely neutral about would get a 70. If I only slightly liked or disliked to movie, it'll score just slightly above or below 70. Other than that I have a intuitive feeling of what a 60, 80, 90 and 100 should feel like, but I don't think I'd be able to articulate what those "feel" like with an accuracy.

Sometime, if I have mixed feelings on a film, or the film varied wildly in quality, I'll try to take an average score. If for example, there were parts of a movie that I loved and would give a 90, but parts I hated and would score a 50, the film would score somewhere between those two numbers in an attempt to balance my feelings about it.

Bartbaard
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Re: RULES that help you decide how to vote

Postby Bartbaard » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:52 pm

CosmicMonkey wrote:The only kinda have two strict-ish rules that I use for rating. The first is whether things score above or below a passing mark of 50. If at any point the film felt like a chore to watch It scores below a 50. If was able to make it to the end without wanting to turn it off or watch something else, even if I didn't like it, it'll get above a 50.

I agree with this very much.

It's hard rating films according to whether they are good or not. Ratings are very personal and mean different things to everybody. I don't think that a movie that is 'so bad that its good' deserves a 0. If I enjoyed it, however bad it was, it deserves a higher grade in my eyes.

paulofilmo
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Re: GLINES that help you decide how to vote

Postby paulofilmo » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:29 pm

more like guidelines, but a book analogy:

69 - ok, but not invested enough to finish it
70 - it's fun/pleasant enough, i finish it, but maybe i get bored or distracted easily. some guilt that i wasn't doing something else
71 - immersion, (and/or) can't put it down, am delighted/bewitched by the form, provides a novel experience, makes me look at life differently, etc.


if i score something below 69, then why am i even here.
i'm too cynical to score a feature above 71

livelove
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Re: RULES that help you decide how to vote

Postby livelove » Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:23 pm

paulofilmo wrote:69 - ok, but not invested enough to finish it
70 - it's fun/pleasant enough, i finish it, but maybe i get bored or distracted easily. some guilt that i wasn't doing something else
71 - immersion, (and/or) can't put it down, am delighted/bewitched by the form, provides a novel experience, makes me look at life differently, etc.
Thanks, but I don't get it. 69 and 71 are so close, yet in your description world's apart. How does this make sense?

Bartbaard wrote:I don't think that a movie that is 'so bad that its good' deserves a 0. If I enjoyed it, however bad it was, it deserves a higher grade in my eyes.
No, by definition "so bad that it's good" is the ultimate badness ... so bad that it can't get any worse. It's laughably bad. So this is a clear-cut case of zero. I'm horrified about users dishing out any better than zero for this, as this ruins the ranking.

ribcage
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Re: RULES that help you decide how to vote

Postby ribcage » Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:56 pm

If a movie is so bad it's good I can't in good conscience give a 0 to something that brought me so much entertainment. Besides, some of these, like Miami Connection, fall into rewatchable territory which makes a 0 even more inadmissable.

The very worst thing a movie can be isn't "bad". The worst thing a movie can be is "boring."


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