RULES that help you decide how to vote

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livelove
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Re: RULES that help you decide how to vote

Post by livelove »

paulofilmo wrote:i think you've captured, more or less, the same sort of considerations when rating. for me, the (somewhat) pleased, stimulated, strong words encompass the breadth of the other factors. ugh. i don't know how to speak about this sort of thing
Yes, this is by design. There are several parameters which should go hand-in-hand normally.

For example if you mark "abandon considered for being too bad/boring",
then 2 rows below you will find in the same range that the film was "terrible" or "bad".
This is compatible.

When you redefine your ranges you will have to watch out that they are not mutually contradicting.
E.g. you cannot have "terrible film" and "lots of good stuff" in the same column.
Or "boring" and "easy to finish".
Or "regret watching" and "worth my time".

This is also how sophisticated opinion polls are done: You get a series of questions and some of them are in essence the reverse/opposite of previously asked questions and if the respondent doesn't give the opposite answer this time, you know there is something wrong with his trustworthiness or the quality of their answers.

In my case it's not to assess trustworthiness, obviously, but words have slightly different meanings and depending on how you ask a certain question, or depending on how your mind works at this particular moment, you might get slightly different responses. So the fact that some rows are expected to go hand-in-hand with others just brings more certainty and reduces the weight of individual outliers (cases where my cell selections are a bit off).

Since there are 34 "questions" (rows), the method is slightly fault tolerant, meaning that if your answers are a bit off 2-3 times, the output would still be relatively accurate. (One should nevertheless try to mark all cells correctly).

paulofilmo
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Re: RULES that help you decide how to vote

Post by paulofilmo »

livelove wrote:But I think by far the :idea: biggest benefit is that your scores stay consistent throughout time, because they always have the same numerical references (e.g. fixed scores for "boring" or "entertaining"). This safes me from scoring an "entertaining" film 30 on one day and "50" 6 months later when I have somewhat forgotten, how I used to rate "entertaining". As an additional benefit, this also helps to avoid the rock/paper/scissors problem.

cool! at the risk of repeating ourselves . . another issue is when something tht used to impress me (an aspect of art), no longer does.
----
i'll have to test a "good" lars von trier, or something like Inland Empire. i'd be circling things all over the shop

To have any chance of the method working, you first have to adapt the ranges to your taste!


sure, i was just playing. could we say that perhaps i felt about that film, more or less how you feel about a film you've rated 65?

feel free to keep correcting me. you're very good at it.

livelove
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Re: RULES that help you decide how to vote

Post by livelove »

paulofilmo wrote:i'd be circling things all over the shop
That's quite normal/intended.

  • • My spreadsheet is intended to have 1 range (I use arrows for that as you saw on the previous page) per row and it should span only 1 parameter (or 2 at the most if it's a borderline case as mentioned on the previous page also).
  • • In rows spanning all columns (i.e. which have parameters from 0-100) you should always mark at least 1 cell.
  • • In incomplete rows (e.g. which only have parameters from 0-20 or 50-100) you should only mark cells if applicable.

paulofilmo wrote:could we say that perhaps i felt about that film, more or less how you feel about a film you've rated 65?
yes exactly, I think this is how it would work.
• If I use your numerical ranges and parameters, I see how my judgement/feeling of a movie translates to a number in your voting scheme.
• If you use my numerical ranges and parameters, you see how your judgement/feeling of a movie translates to a number in my voting scheme.

Hence the need to first adapt my ranges to your liking in case you want to use my spreadsheet.
Also, if you have ideas for additional rows, just let me know. I'd obviously love to see YOUR spreadsheet once it's ready!! 8-)


paulofilmo wrote:cool! at the risk of repeating ourselves . . another issue is when something tht used to impress me (an aspect of art), no longer does.
That's a good point. Did we have that one already? (can't remember).
In this case, you can reassess the movie and change your rating (with or without using the spreadsheet).
Or what implications do you see for the spreadsheet relative to this case ?

I think generally this falls into these categories:

paulofilmo wrote:feel free to keep correcting me. you're very good at it.
sorry, I know I am a smartass. Problem is, I'm often right, so there is plenty of occasions to be smartassy about :P

paulofilmo
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Re: RULES that help you decide how to vote

Post by paulofilmo »

Or what implications do you see for the spreadsheet relative to this case ?

oh, i dunno. maybe if it's something specific, a row could be created for it

Also, if you have ideas for additional rows, just let me know. I'd obviously love to see YOUR spreadsheet once it's ready!! 8-)

the ones on your emotional response row work for me. sort of the extent/intensity that i receive the aesthetic rendering of the maker's mood/intention/idea.

chmul_cr0n
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Re: RULES that help you decide how to vote

Post by chmul_cr0n »

My rules are very intuitive and basically based on severity of resonance. If you will. :D
Not necessarily of how long it resonates with me. But how strongly it does. Even if it's immediately over once the credits kick in.
Sometimes I need to wait a little for the maximum possible resonance to build up. Sometimes I need to be on my toes, so I don't forget how much I enjoyed something I decided to forget about 2 seconds ago.
If you consider movies as some sort of container for meaning (which I do), the quality of the container can also be important. So sometimes two movies can have the same score, even though contains more truth (to me), but the other has a better container, even though it's empty. So, because I'm passionate about movies, a good container means something to me as well. Some sort of meta-meaning. A more indirect connection. Movies are things I generally respond to much stronger than other works of art or media, so making movies well and making them accessible is important to me, because movies are important to me. All of that is probably close to red an green system you came up with, if I tried to spell it out. I like to do the math in my head, though. :>

I also kind of mathematically divide the rating spectrum. Into a "positive half" (50-100) and a "negative" one (I know it's not exactly half, but what are you gonna do with a 101 options...). So I basically treat it like it's -50 to 50. With 0 being in the middle and representing an average movie, a zero-sum experience. If the positive aspects weigh heavier, it may get a 13/63, in the opposite case a -13/37. I mean, I don't think of it in terms of -50 to 50, when it comes to the numbers, but on principal that's how I divide the spectrum.
0 representing the worst, exhausting, insulting movie-watching experience I've ever had (comparable to being served a turd instead of a meal suitable for human consumption), and 100 representing the most meaningful (comparable to being blown by god). In between, every positive reaction has its negative counterpart represented in numbers (1/99, 20/80, 43/57, etc...).
It may sound counter-intuitive, but to me a movie that didn't make me feel anything is better than a movie that evoked negative reactions, made me angry, upset, "you call this a movie, you impudent charlatan?", etc...which means movies that don't take any risks can get better ratings than movies that take risks and fail. But that usually only happens with movies, which do take risks and challenge conventions, but don't offer anything new instead. At least nothing that is better than the tradition/convention. I sometimes appreciate the people behind it more, and the movie's existence as well, but not the movie itself. If that makes any sense.
To put it in other words: Average movies offer an average amount of meaning, by making safe choices and doing things most people respond to with average intensity. Whereas risky, unsusccesful movies offer a lack of meaning, which is frustrating. With the frustration being proportionate to the amount lacking. :) Which usually happens with movies that tackle interesting subjects, but do so in a very uninteresting fashion. Certain topics require certain attention, and certain things evoke certain expectations. So a superficial, cliché-based Hallmark movie about a pretty nanny meeting a pretty single dad is probably gonna be less frustrating to me than a superficial cliché-based movie about coping with mental illness or slavery. If all a movie has to offer is "look at how much thisandthat must have sucked!", without any nuance or detail, I don't see the point.
So, to me, boring is better than frustrating. Unless of course it's in-your-face frustratingly boring, which also happens from time to time. :D

But apart from that I don't have any rules written down, that I have to abide by. I trust my subconscious on that one. :)

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