Islamic Terrorism in Film

Introduce yourself to the community or chat with other users about whatever is on your mind
Velvet Crowe
Posts: 156
2601 Ratings
Your TCI: na
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 3:26 pm

Islamic Terrorism in Film

Post by Velvet Crowe »

I just came back from watching Hotel Mumbai and I found the reception a bit awkward. It's a bit unfortunate that the film came out a few weeks after the Christchurch shooting, but the assertion that the film is "Islamophobic" and "ethically wrong" is eyebrow-raising, to say the least. The film humanizes one of the terrorists and also makes a twist that one of the victims was a Muslim herself, pushing a narrative that she "isn't like them."

I'm not the sort of person who believes Muslims to be inherently vile nor do I take much stock into anti-Muslim rhetoric, but are we going to act as if that Islamic terrorism isn't a thing? What's supposed to be the ideal in portraying it in film? Historically, the portrayal of Muslims in western film has been pretty one-dimensional often to the point of absurdity. But I do think there is merit in portraying its extremist elements in film and perhaps even beg the question of "why?" Hotel Mumbai was somewhat effective in this at least in its portrayal of Imran. Here we see a man clearly troubled by his actions, but is so bent towards "jihad" he unquestionably follows the orders of his leader. While the motivations of the terrorists in this film was never developed, I thought there was intrigue in the brutality and inhumane attitudes they possessed in committing such atrocities. I don't think it should be taboo to portray Muslims as terrible people; because let's be real here, There are plenty of Muslim people in reality who have problematic morals even if there are also Muslims in reality who are progressive. I think in this situation it's more of a case of how we should portray these morals than a case of never showing it all, which I think a lot of people are shying away from.

I'd rather not this thread be a "is Islam bad?" thread (though I admit it'll probably turn out that way) so much as I wanted to ask about what would be an ideal and interesting way to explore this subject in film. Even if you view Islam as vile, would you not agree that the way film has portrayed it to be lacking, no?

MacSwell
Posts: 1721
2706 Ratings
Your TCI: na
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:03 am

Re: Islamic Terrorism in Film

Post by MacSwell »

I think True Lies gets it just right 8-)

Velvet Crowe
Posts: 156
2601 Ratings
Your TCI: na
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 3:26 pm

Re: Islamic Terrorism in Film

Post by Velvet Crowe »

Maaxwell wrote:I think True Lies gets it just right 8-)


lol. Pretty much everything in that movie is absurd. I love it!

TheSean
Posts: 51
1220 Ratings
Your TCI: na
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:08 am

Re: Islamic Terrorism in Film

Post by TheSean »

Not film but I recall BBC's 'Spooks' did an episode involving Islamic terrorism in one of their early seasons. It was met with considerable backlash from the Muslim community.

OK I've found a link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nest_of_A ... ontroversy

Needless to say they didn't touch the subject again.

Well, technically they did Episode 5 of Series 6.

"The British government are brokering a secret deal with the Saudis, selling nuclear power to secure their future oil supply.

Intelligence suggests that one of the Saudi Princes has links with Al-Qaeda and might want to sabotage the deal, so Ros goes undercover with the Saudi royal family.

Events take a terrifying turn when the Saudi embassy is stormed and Ros is taken hostage. Can she communicate with her team and help them unravel one of the most complex terror plots they have ever faced?"


Spoiler alert:
It turns out the "Al-Qaeda terrorists" are in fact in fact Mossad agents. 8-)

P u l p
Posts: 78
3158 Ratings
Your TCI: na
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:43 pm

Re: Islamic Terrorism in Film

Post by P u l p »

There is good and bad in every human, every family, every city, every country, every culture and every religion. The thing is you will only see what media-owner (let's say USA) wants you to see. Everyday hundreds of people (let's say Muslims) die in middle east; Do you hear anything about them? No. How much do you know about wars in middle east or africa? Only what the "media" told you, right? There is good and bad everywhere. They fire at muslims and of course some BAD muslims will fire back.
Always remember who owns the "media". When you punch someone in the face and he punches back, does it really matter if he is muslim, jew, black, white, arab, mexican... ? :D

Fun fact: Did you know before the US invaded Iraq in 2003, there had never been a suicide bombing in Iraq history. Since the US invaded there have been 1,892.

Fun fact 2: US dropped 26,171 bombs in 2016 (according to CFR.org).

CosmicMonkey
Posts: 594
1271 Ratings
Your TCI: na
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:52 pm

Re: Islamic Terrorism in Film

Post by CosmicMonkey »

Velvet Crowe wrote:What's supposed to be the ideal in portraying it in film? Historically, the portrayal of Muslims in western film has been pretty one-dimensional often to the point of absurdity.


I think that kind of answers the question. The political conditions that gave rise to violent extremist groups in the Middle East are extremely complicated, and in the West, the discourse around it is both over-simplified and surrounded by a shit ton of Racist misconceptions. White Hollywood film-makers are never gonna understand the subject enough to give the topic the nuance or complexity it needs to avoid it from ever becoming an Islamaphobic mess. These are the kinds of stories that (at-least in this moment of time) really only can and only should be told by Muslim and/or Middle-Eastern film-makers.

Case in point, the best portrayal I've ever seen of the topic was the Mauritanian film Timbuktu, and that should maybe be held as an example of how to make an ideally nuanced yet critical portrayal of islamic militantism.

coffee
Posts: 321
2376 Ratings
Your TCI: na
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 7:45 pm

Re: Islamic Terrorism in Film

Post by coffee »

Aren't those terrorists financed, equipped and trained by so very legal, modern, democratic and westphalian governments?

The best film about terrorisms of all kinds is Lord of War.

Fun fact: The filmmakers used a real stockpile of over three thousand AK-47s, because it was cheaper than getting prop guns.

So where ever you are, where ever you live; go and film your own government.

That'll be about terrorism.

P u l p
Posts: 78
3158 Ratings
Your TCI: na
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:43 pm

Re: Islamic Terrorism in Film

Post by P u l p »

coffee wrote:Aren't those terrorists financed, equipped and trained by so very legal, modern, democratic and westphalian governments?

The best film about terrorisms of all kinds is Lord of War.

Fun fact: The filmmakers used a real stockpile of over three thousand AK-47s, because it was cheaper than getting prop guns.

So where ever you are, where ever you live; go and film your own government.

That'll be about terrorism.


I like this comment. Agree.

Velvet Crowe
Posts: 156
2601 Ratings
Your TCI: na
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 3:26 pm

Re: Islamic Terrorism in Film

Post by Velvet Crowe »

CosmicMonkey wrote:I think that kind of answers the question. The political conditions that gave rise to violent extremist groups in the Middle East are extremely complicated, and in the West, the discourse around it is both over-simplified and surrounded by a shit ton of Racist misconceptions. White Hollywood film-makers are never gonna understand the subject enough to give the topic the nuance or complexity it needs to avoid it from ever becoming an Islamaphobic mess. These are the kinds of stories that (at-least in this moment of time) really only can and only should be told by Muslim and/or Middle-Eastern film-makers.

Case in point, the best portrayal I've ever seen of the topic was the Mauritanian film Timbuktu, and that should maybe be held as an example of how to make an ideally nuanced yet critical portrayal of islamic militantism.


Or the film could simply be aggrandizement of the state and Islam with little nuance. I think it's rather cheap to claim Hollywood is "Islamophobic" when nowadays "diversity" has become a marketable trend among filmmakers and making titles that come across as "islamophobic" is simply bad PR. Most modern films are far more careful in their depiction of Arab characters than they were in the '80s.

I also feel your argument is as simplified and surround by a ton of racist shit just as much as you claim Hollywood is. Islamic terrorism doesn't just exist or originated in the middle east, it also has a presence in Europe and East Asia as well. In fact, the film "Hotel Mumbai" didn't even reference middle eastern terrorism. It was based on an attack in India committed by Pakistani's who aren't considered "middle eastern" by any stretch. You're making the assumption that Islamic terrorists only come from the middle east, which is a laughably racist assumption considering the argument you made.

Various different kinds of people have experience with Islamic terrorism and it strikes me as rather one-dimensional to assert that only Arabs or Persians have any good input on the subject matter. Not to mention the assertion that only one racialized group of people is capable of understanding something is, dare I say, racist thinking? By your logic, we should never allow blacks to write anything about European history or have Asians make anything with a western setting. According to you, they wouldn't understand it since they're not racially aligned to.

P u l p wrote:There is good and bad in every human, every family, every city, every country, every culture and every religion. The thing is you will only see what media-owner (let's say USA) wants you to see. Everyday hundreds of people (let's say Muslims) die in middle east; Do you hear anything about them? No. How much do you know about wars in middle east or africa? Only what the "media" told you, right? There is good and bad everywhere. They fire at muslims and of course some BAD muslims will fire back.
Always remember who owns the "media". When you punch someone in the face and he punches back, does it really matter if he is muslim, jew, black, white, arab, mexican... ?


There's some truth to this but I also feel it's rather disingenuous. Hundreds of people die in America too, but you likely don't hear much about them. When it comes to wartime atrocities, large scale deaths in the middle east are often well documented. We know about various terrorist attacks in places like Nigeria or even Saudi Arabia which has seen condemnation by federal governments. I hear about these events all the time from news outlets. While perhaps they don't have an effect on the national consciousness, it's flat out wrong to claim western media ignores these events happening. I would agree there's some semblance of bias but to claim middle eastern outlets are less unbiased or truthful (the opposite is true) is far from the truth. You can't just paint western civilizations as the only ones with biases in these events.

It's also disingenuous to claim that Muslim extremism only exists as a retaliation of western interventionism. As I said earlier, the victims in Mumbai were not western. Nor were the victims in Nigeria, Algeria, or China. I don't think we should frame every Islamic terrorist attack as causation of western actions.

coffee wrote:Aren't those terrorists financed, equipped and trained by so very legal, modern, democratic and westphalian governments?


Some were, most aren't. Western governments have had no part in creating groups like ISIS or Al-Qaeda directly. If anything Saudi Arabian nobles are more responsible for funding them than the west is. I also doubt any western government would pay a terrorist to attack their own nation. I'm not sure what you mean by "westphalian," but I'm assuming you're not using the proper definition of it here.

TheSean wrote:Not film but I recall BBC's 'Spooks' did an episode involving Islamic terrorism in one of their early seasons. It was met with considerable backlash from the Muslim community.


Yeah, it's possible for there to be outrage over any sort of portrayal of terrorism. I think that's what makes it so daunting nowadays - no director wants to be called a bigot, it's bad PR. Though I do think there is value in exploring theme artistically speaking, critics be damned.

TychoCelchuu
Posts: 8
2347 Ratings
Your TCI: na
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:40 am

Re: Islamic Terrorism in Film

Post by TychoCelchuu »

Velvet Crowe wrote:Some were, most aren't. Western governments have had no part in creating groups like ISIS or Al-Qaeda directly.

I think you may need to take a slightly more nuanced look at history books. Or just watch Rambo III!

Post Reply