Why Top X Lists are Doomed to Failure

[julesfmb]

They sometimes can be a good way of listing the better "achievements" within a narrow subgenre or very specific niches that have 'repetition' as a main trait. Say, Shaw Brothers' movies. Hammer movies. Direct-to-video trash from the 90s. So on.
But sure, things get very 'toxic' when well-known, highly regarded cinema gets involved.

[paulofilmo]

Top 10 films of the 50s:

Rashomon
The Browning Version
Ikiru
Paths of Glory
Sansho The Bailiff
Aparajito
A Man Escaped
Wild Strawberries
Vertigo
Nights of Cabiria

Done

nu uh
my top 8

The Little Kidnappers (1953)
Kanal (1957)
12 Angry Men (1957)
Limelight (1952)
The Magician (1958)
Ordet (1955)
Pather Panchali (1955)
Vertigo (1958)

although the last time i rated a '50s film over 72 'Good (78th percentile)' was 2012, so i might well be janked in the bean

[CosmicMonkey]

In my experience Top X lists are an easy and concise way to get people interested in a topic that they might have little or limited knowledge of. Want to get your non-cinephile friends to watch more arthouse movies? Make them a top 10 list about whatever, include a couple of films you know they already like and then throw in David Lynch or Jodorowsky or whatever. Want them to watch The Wire? Send them a Top 10 HBO shows or crime shows etc.

Top X lists are great for casual fans who want to dip their toes more into a specific topic, but after a certain length of time researching something, their usefulness becomes limited. Once you've seen 3000 films, you can judge what sort of films you'll enjoy pretty well.

If weren't for teenage me discovering lists like the Sight and Sound poll or AFI Top 100, I seriously doubt I would be the cinephile I am today.

[PrestoBix]

What I see as the even bigger flaw inherent to the construction of these lists is the fact that almost all of these lists are constructed by someone who is doing it for a living and can't spend too much time on any given article before they need to move on and create other content. Because of this, they're incentivized to make lowest-common-denominator choices and cannibalize other previous lists.

Earlier this year I found a guy who was methodically watching every western film ever made, and reviewing and ranking each. He started in like 2007 and is still going. I just tried to find his website just now but couldn't. It came to mind because it's the only example I've ever seen where a person actually tries to do justice to list creation. He spent ages compiling just the list of films to evaluate, and you could see not just the films he'd seen so far, but all those he needed to see in the future to mark the project as completed.

This is the kind of dedication that I think is necessary if you want to create a list that's actually "finished." I like lists myself, but I never create a director list until I have seen every one of their films, for example. What's the use of making a list if it's not even complete? I typically don't make genre lists, but if I do I'll use the same mentality. Last year I started getting really into legal films, and I compiled a list of every single legal film that exists, and now I've seen 80 of about 120. Once I see all 120, I would publish the list (if I had a publication, that is).

[MacSwell]

What if such a list is simply framed differently as "10 Great Movies from the 1950s" rather than "The Top 10"? I much prefer those kind of lists that give you a handful of films "you may not have heard of", because anyone who has a vague affinity for cinema doesn't need to hear about The Seventh Seal and Vertigo. In such an instance I might proffer something like:

Touchez pas au grisbi
Jalsaghar
A Bloody Spear on Mount Fuji
Cairo Station
It Happened in Broad Daylight
La poison
Pool of London
The Raid
Day of the Outlaw
No Name on the Bullet

[JakeAesthete]

Doomed? That would, uh, be far easier. No, they simply fail without being doomed.

[ShogunRua]

Earlier this year I found a guy who was methodically watching every western film ever made, and reviewing and ranking each. He started in like 2007 and is still going. I just tried to find his website just now but couldn't. It came to mind because it's the only example I've ever seen where a person actually tries to do justice to list creation. He spent ages compiling just the list of films to evaluate, and you could see not just the films he'd seen so far, but all those he needed to see in the future to mark the project as completed.

Precisely. He has spent 14+ years on this project and isn't even finished. How many people like him are there? Vanishingly few, and yet, those are the only people that can even begin to compile such a list.

Last year I started getting really into legal films, and I compiled a list of every single legal film that exists, and now I've seen 80 of about 120. Once I see all 120, I would publish the list (if I had a publication, that is).

By all means, publish it here. Unlike the clickbait articles from hack websites, I will read yours.

What if such a list is simply framed differently as "10 Great Movies from the 1950s" rather than "The Top 10"?

Then it would have a vastly higher chance of being a worthwhile list and I would be far more likely to read it! In fact, most of my criticism wouldn't apply if it was just "10 Random Movies from the 1950's I Really Like that People Don't Talk Enough About".

It would also give the writer a lot more freedom and not have to include, as you mentioned, Vertigo or The Seventh Seal.

[paulofilmo]

What if such a list is simply framed differently as "10 Great Movies from the 1950s" rather than "The Top 10"? I much prefer those kind of lists that give you a handful of films "you may not have heard of", because anyone who has a vague affinity for cinema doesn't need to hear about The Seventh Seal and Vertigo. In such an instance I might proffer something like:

Touchez pas au grisbi
Jalsaghar
A Bloody Spear on Mount Fuji
Cairo Station
It Happened in Broad Daylight
La poison
Pool of London
The Raid
Day of the Outlaw
No Name on the Bullet

there's a collection like this. like . . all the second place movies.
I'll be enjoying a sunset or whatever and think, what are my top 10 favourite films that aren't in anyone else's top 10 favourite films, even though there's a reasonable chance they've seen them.


that and highly idiosyncratic lists . . what to watch while drinking chardonnay in the bath while your cat looks at you dejectedly

i'll follow suit w/'50s recs

The Little Kidnappers (1953)
The Golden Coach (1953)
The Asphalt Jungle (1950)
Genevieve (1953)
Madhumati (1958)
A Night to Remember (1958)

folk have hopefully seen Asphalt Jungle, but I couldn't not. How can things go so wrong? How is it possible? One man killed, two others plugged. I'm out 30 grand. We got a load of rocks we can't even peddle.

[VinegarBob]

I think it's obvious all this is subjective as hell, but I find lists are great fun, and taken on that level they're a good thing. Although group think exists, and so does plagiarism and laziness on the part of professional film critics and list makers, I've found over the years that the films that dominate 'best of the year/decade/ever' lists do so for a reason; they tend to be pretty damned good!

That's not to say there aren't great films outside of those lists, and sometimes more experienced cinephiles feel an obligation to cite their picks from that group of films rather than the more familiar ones that do the rounds, in order to promote more adventurous viewing from the people they're 'teaching' about cinema, which is fine, although I suspect there's a tendency for them to rate a film higher than normal when it's a 'hidden gem'.

I subscribe to the view that about 99% of all movies are varying degrees of bad, so I'm not really surprised that the same films pop up in so many best of lists, and I often find myself scratching my head at many obscure 'masterpieces' that some people gush over. They are out there though, and there are enough hidden gems that slip past most peoples' consciousness to keep things interesting. Finding a relatively unknown film from some 'top 10' list that I end up enjoying a lot is one of the best things about film watching, but starting with the biggies then working my way out to the more obscure stuff worked well for me.

Anyway, with all that in mind, and seeing as we seem to have a 50s list thing going now here's an alternative 10 films from the 50s that are lesser known (although 'lesser known' is a relative term) that I think are well worth any film enthusiast's time:

1. The Human Condition
2. The Ogre of Athens
3. Fires on The Plain
4. Room At The Top
5. To Joy
6. Ballad of A Soldier
7. Tokyo Twilight
8. Look Back In Anger
9. The Joker Is Wild
10. Children of Hiroshima

Long Live Lists!

[iconogassed]

I think it's important to emphasize that before Buzzfeed, lists were a much less prominent and objectionable part of pop culture media/discourse. Now all is nonsense.

10 great lesser-known '50s noirs:

Forever Night
Out of the Night
The Big, Long Night
Night Falls on Phoenix
Tomorrow is Another Night
This Is the Night
Hunter of the Night
Is This the Night?
Night Has a Thousand Eyes and Even More Ears
They Live, Buy Knights?