I don't know if my favourite film should be in the same tier as my 60th favourite

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90sCoffee
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I don't know if my favourite film should be in the same tier as my 60th favourite

Post by 90sCoffee »

If I have say 1,000 ratings then my top-10 favourite films will be categorized in tier 10 but so will my say, 70th or 90th favourite films since each tier is worth 10%.

I think a tier 10 should be reserved for your absolute favourite films, the top 3-5%, 10% seems too large. The Tiers 7 and 8 should probably be bigger than 10% and tier 1 or 2 should probably also be a bit less than 10%. Unless you're one of those people that love to go out and watch terrible films, I think only the bottom 5% are bad enough to be in the 1st tier.

mpowell
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Re: I don't know if my favourite film should be in the same tier as my 60th favourite

Post by mpowell »

Thanks for the input! Tier 10 really means "top 10 percentile of films"... so restricting that would require a total rethinking of how Criticker works. If you've got 1000 rankings, (generally) 100 of them will be in your Tier 10.

We understand what you're saying, though. One thing that might help, is the ability to adjust your "quips" and colors however you want, using the utility found on the User Profile page (look for the link "Manually Control..."). Then, if you just want your top few films to say "Masterpiece" (for example) you can set that up.

td888
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Re: I don't know if my favourite film should be in the same tier as my 60th favourite

Post by td888 »

Actually I agree with KalltKaffe. The movies in in the tier-distribution should represent a bell-curve. I don't know for anyone else, but most movies I watch are average while some of them are either very good or (unexpected) very bad. I think the tiers should therefore be a normal distribution.

I wish I could adjust the percentages of each tier myself (now each tier is 10%, but I wish I could adjust it to 5-5-10-20-15-15-10-10-5-5 %). I do understand this would have impact on Criticker's 'backoffice' of how to generate the tiers for each user.

philamental
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Re: I don't know if my favourite film should be in the same tier as my 60th favourite

Post by philamental »

mpowell wrote:We understand what you're saying, though. One thing that might help, is the ability to adjust your "quips" and colors however you want, using the utility found on the User Profile page (look for the link "Manually Control..."). Then, if you just want your top few films to say "Masterpiece" (for example) you can set that up.


FWIW, this is exactly what I do. The criticker tier system isn't even something that really registers with me as a result now as I solely refer to my own custom levels with the quips and colours.

Image

You can see the volume of movies in each custom 'tier' varies entirely based on my own ratings. I could flood a tier or keep it privileged, it's entirely my choice. Absolutely no need to alter the back end at all in my opinion.

90sCoffee
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Re: I don't know if my favourite film should be in the same tier as my 60th favourite

Post by 90sCoffee »

But what you've done above isn't as functional in terms of quips. It doesn't reflect in the average score rating of the film on the stats page for example and it doesn't actually make your tiers any more closer to the bell curve model. Your tier 1 includes I'm guessing all films rated from 0-39 even though the ones that are say closer to 39 should probably be a higher tier than the ones you rated below 10.

philamental
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Re: I don't know if my favourite film should be in the same tier as my 60th favourite

Post by philamental »

Either I'm not following you, or you're not following me here. I'll try clarify my side of things as it may help us understand each other.

To try and eliminate confusion, any time I talk about tiers here I am referring to the actual criticker tiers. Those tiers have the flaw you complained about in that there is always 10% in T10, which could see a film with a rating of say 78 given T10 status just the same as a much higher class of film you rated 100 depending on how you've rated films.

In my own custom level system (as shown in the earlier pic), I have created 10 personal levels and attributed custom quips and colours to them. These are not tiers, but in my mind I treat them as such and thus I effectively ignore the criticker tier system altogether and use this personal level system instead. In my profile a film rating of 78 is Criticker Tier 7, but is labelled 'very good' which is my custom level 8 (my personal equivalent of T8). If my PSI for a film is 78, I immediately see that as Criticker suggesting I will consider the film to be 'very good' or my custom level 8. (see example here)

Image

What this means is I can segregate my films easily. I know that if a film scores 90 or higher it resides among my favourite/best films of all time (classic). I can score a film just one point less and it drops a level (great). This gives me complete control over how I rank my films. I honestly don't even think about the actual criticker Tier System anymore and all I see are my own custom levels. In the example you asked about, my official criticker T1 includes films from 0-40, this covers 4 full personal levels (0-9 Utter Shit, 10-19 Shit, 20-29 Terrible, 30-39 Bad) and the beginning of the next level (40 Poor). There are only 3 films in my bottom level. I consider that my own T1 even though officially it's not. It takes a special level of crap to be ranked in this bracket, but I have full control over what gets landed there, and I thought that's effectively what you were looking for originally when you suggested your 'T1' should have a much smaller percentage.

Now it's possible I'm just not getting what you are looking to achieve. Perhaps you look at what I'm saying and fully understand that it works for me but know it wouldn't work for you. I just know that the custom quips and colours solved my own issues with the Tier system perfectly.

paulofilmo
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Re: I don't know if my favourite film should be in the same tier as my 60th favourite

Post by paulofilmo »

The quips are cosmetic. OP believes his #1 film should have greater influence than his #60 film.

/not to muddy the waters

philamental
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Re: I don't know if my favourite film should be in the same tier as my 60th favourite

Post by philamental »

If that's the case (it probably is, but reading through their posts again I can't quite see that point being made) then the only way I could see that being possible is if Criticker required all users to set their own personal Tier levels (effectively what I've done) rather than using the standard 10% breakdown and then ran their algorithms off that. Sounds like a minefield to get working properly though.

I'm not sure if the OP is concerned about his influence on others or his influence on his own recommendations, but neither are overly important to me which is why my own set up works well for my needs.

td888
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Re: I don't know if my favourite film should be in the same tier as my 60th favourite

Post by td888 »

philamental wrote:If that's the case (it probably is, but reading through their posts again I can't quite see that point being made) then the only way I could see that being possible is if Criticker required all users to set their own personal Tier levels (effectively what I've done) rather than using the standard 10% breakdown and then ran their algorithms off that. Sounds like a minefield to get working properly though.


Yep, this is exactly it. If a user doesn't set its own personal tier levels, Criticker can use the default (10% for each tier). But I imagine that this will be a lot of work for Criticker to implement. I don't mind paying for this functionality though...

philamental wrote:I'm not sure if the OP is concerned about his influence on others or his influence on his own recommendations, but neither are overly important to me which is why my own set up works well for my needs.


Criticker compares user's movie ratings by tier. I think that a lot of my movies are in the wrong tier (say T8 instead of T9). So it might be that movies in my T10 are linked to other users who have it in T10 as well, while for me these are T9 movies.

philamental
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Re: I don't know if my favourite film should be in the same tier as my 60th favourite

Post by philamental »

td888 wrote:Criticker compares user's movie ratings by tier. I think that a lot of my movies are in the wrong tier (say T8 instead of T9). So it might be that movies in my T10 are linked to other users who have it in T10 as well, while for me these are T9 movies.


While I get that in theory, does it actually make a massive difference to your experience with Criticker? Isn't that the whole point of the current tier system to overcome personal levelling criteria with a singular one? Does it matter if I love movie x much more than movie y, when in the grand scheme of things it's the position among all my films that matters when calculating recommendations for myself and others?

I want to be clear I'm not stating your view is wrong and I'm right here. I'm just asking the question of whether the tiering criteria you desire would make an actual difference apart from feeling right in your head? Of course it would change recommendations but would they be any more accurate or just different? I'm frequently impressed at how specific and accurate my PSI for a film is. I usually try to ignore or forget PSI before watching a film (with such a long 'to watch' list, that's very easy to do) and I decide my score before I go to the page to rate it. There have been a notable number of times when the PSI has been exactly correct, which is impressive when I use the full granular 0-100 scale. So that proves the criticker system works well to a point.

On the flip side, there are also a number of times when my PSI isn't remotely close and I'll hate a film I'm supposed to love and this show the imperfections of the system. Would your proposed system be more accurate for those examples? Possibly, but would it also be less accurate for the examples that were exactly correct? It would make sense to me to think that would also be the case. So which system is more accurate? It's hard to tell.

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