I don't know if my favourite film should be in the same tier as my 60th favourite

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MacSwell
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Re: I don't know if my favourite film should be in the same tier as my 60th favourite

Post by MacSwell »

The tier system is fine as it is. If you've seen over 600 films, your favourite film should in the same tier as your 60th favourite. It's your top 10%.

td888
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Re: I don't know if my favourite film should be in the same tier as my 60th favourite

Post by td888 »

We're going in circles...

Your assumption is that this person has seen exactly 60 movies that fall in each corresponding Tier according to his taste. So 60 for each Tier. I just don't believe that.

In reality there will 30/40 movies that deserve a T10 rating and the same goes for T1 (not 60). The majority of the movies he watched will be rated as average or above/below average. Most movies should therefore fall in tiers 3-7, and not lumped equally in each tier.

MacSwell
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Re: I don't know if my favourite film should be in the same tier as my 60th favourite

Post by MacSwell »

My point was essentially that there's no way around that. It just splits into 10 as best as it can.

lisa-
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Re: I don't know if my favourite film should be in the same tier as my 60th favourite

Post by lisa- »

using a (truncated) gaussian distribution to split up tiers would be less accessible to the average user than a uniform distribution, and there would be effectively no functional difference in recommendations generated. there's nothing inherently more "correct" in using a bell curve given what criticker is trying to achieve.

90sCoffee
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Re: I don't know if my favourite film should be in the same tier as my 60th favourite

Post by 90sCoffee »

I realized a good point against the argument that it doesn't matter what percentage per tier because they'll even out in the end for all users.

The problem is that it affects who's in your highest TCI and if it affects the TCI then it means the PSIs being generated are less accurate and here's how. Let's say I rank a movie that I think is pretty decent a 65. I haven't seen that many bad films so this movie ends up being a low tier like a tier 3 or 4 for me. Another user (who I have a similar taste to in reality) also thinks the movie is decent and ranks it a 65. Problem is that for this user, the film ends up being a higher tier 6 or 7 because he has seen a lot of bad films so for him that film's tier is fairly different from mine despite me and him having the same opinion of the film. Now a third user who's also seen lots of bad films hated that same film so she ranks it a 30 which is much lower than my 65 but for this user, the film falls into her 3rd or 4th tier despite me and her having a very different opinion of the movie. My TCI is going to be closer to that user who ranked the movie a 30/100 but it was in her 4th tier instead of being closer to the user who ranked the film a 65/100 like me but it's in his 6th or 7th tier.

Pretty much what I'm saying is that this system of each tier being worth 10% causes a greater skew and less accurate scores for those middle of the pack films (which is most of them). Of course you'll always have a bias unless everyone's using the same score system but at least by making tiers 1, 2, possibly 3, and 10 worth less than 10%, it decreases the bias and improves accuracy.

lisa-
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Re: I don't know if my favourite film should be in the same tier as my 60th favourite

Post by lisa- »

the fact that different people will see different proportions of films they consider good and bad is indeed a flaw of criticker's recommendation system, but weighting the tiers as you propose would not go far to ameliorate the problem, and most importantly would be far less accessible to users.

90sCoffee
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Re: I don't know if my favourite film should be in the same tier as my 60th favourite

Post by 90sCoffee »

I don't understand how it would be less accessible to users. It's not like users would have to change anything, we aren't setting the algorithm percentage for each tier, that's done by the website itself.

lisa-
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Re: I don't know if my favourite film should be in the same tier as my 60th favourite

Post by lisa- »

it's much easier to understand "10% per tier" than something more arbitrarily specified.

porzano
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Re: I don't know if my favourite film should be in the same tier as my 60th favourite

Post by porzano »

you really should change the scale to a bell curve.
The system is definitely not working in the best of ways if you have watched a lot of films.

For example, if I´ve seen 5000 films (and used the whole scale from 1-100 in a standard way) it will look something like this:

tier10: 70-100
tier9: 60-69
tier8: 54-59
tier7: 52-53
tier6: 51
tier5: 50
tier4: 48-49
tier3: 41-47
tier2: 31-40
tier1: 1-30

now if I´m compared to john doe (who also has seen 5000 films and used the whole scale in a standard way) the result wil be
that we have great similarities in tier10 ( I have tier 10 (70) and john Doe has tier10 (100) on "film x"
but we disagree big time on "film y", I have tier7 (52) and john Doe has tier3 (47).
and of course the difference between 47-52 is "almost" coincidential in both of our ways of grading films. etc.

This makes the system put to much emphases in having "exactly" the same grades in the area of 45-55,
instead of focusing more on the much more interesting differences between 100-90-80-70 / 10- 20-30-40



sorry for my, perhaps, bad english! (I´m just a poor ignorant swede).

BadCosmonaut
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Re: I don't know if my favourite film should be in the same tier as my 60th favourite

Post by BadCosmonaut »

The more I think about it, the more I agree the tier system should be improved. I use a 10 point scale, 1-10.

Tier 10 is 8-10
Tier 9 is 7
Tier 8 is unused
Tier 7 is 6
Tier 6 is 5
Tier 5 is unused
Tier 4 is 4
Tier 3 is unused
Tier 2 is 3
Tier 1 is 1-2

It skips 3 tiers. Why? For people who use a 10 point scale (or more than 10 points), what justification exists to not use all 10 tiers? If someone uses 10 points or more to distinguish movies, then all 10 tiers should be used. Only if someone uses 9 or less should it not use 10.

Where am I going wrong?

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