The King of Kong: A Fistful of Quarters

[td888]

Unbelievable, the biggest douche (Billy Mitchell) in the world reclaimed the highscore for Donkey Kong.

"Ottumwa, Iowa – August 7, 2010 – It’s the achievement that has the International Videogame Hall of Fame buzzing. At 2pm today, Billy Mitchell revealed back-to-back verified world records, reclaiming his coveted Donkey Kong (DK) champion status and setting a new Donkey Kong Jr. (DK Jr.) record to boot"
http://www.twingalaxies.com/index.aspx?c=27&id=2213

"The final times for Mitchell’s DK and DK Jr. games were 2hrs 42 and 3hrs 58 minutes, respectively. Asked why he stopped as soon as he had slipped past Hank Chien’s previous world record of 1,061,700, Mitchell adds: “Some say I’m being cocky. Some say I’m being lazy. I say, I’m being Billy Mitchell."

The King of Kong: A Fistful of Quarters
http://www.criticker.com/film/The_King_ ... _A/mark/3/

[ShogunRua]

Uh, problem is, Mitchell never was that big of a douche, and I am consistently surprised by the people that were fooled by that hack-job of a documentary. In fact, Mitchell wasn't even the world record holder during the time the film was shot!

I linked to this in my review, but this is a comprehensive summary of all the lies, misrepresentation, Michael Moore-style editing, and BS in the King of Kong;

http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/1303

This one also isn't bad

http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/articles ... tory.jhtml

[td888]

Yes, I've read these stories as well. But after hearing this,
http://www.slashfilm.com/2008/11/26/the ... th-gordon/
I'm inclined to believe Mitchell is still a douche.

It's offcourse the director talking, but he has some valid points.

[ShogunRua]

Yes, I've read these stories as well. But after hearing this,
http://www.slashfilm.com/2008/11/26/the ... th-gordon/
I'm inclined to believe Mitchell is still a douche.

It's offcourse the director talking, but he has some valid points.

I've read that response from the director, too. Personally, I think he is the one who comes out like the giant douche; there is also no question that when Mitchell went to greet Weibe at his restaurant, they did a quick camera cut-away. Also, playing a song about how "the villain wins" for Mitchell, and the Rocky theme for Weibe?

Dude, Seth Gordon, can you get any more blatant with your bias? It's so funny yet appropriate that a documentary filmmaker on an arcade game would be more of an iconoclast and liar than the guys doing politics, like Michael Moore.

As for Mitchell, there is no question that he has an arrogant, showmanship streak that most entertainers and some athletes possess. But that is not the same as being a douche, nor is it in many instances even a bad thing. Look at his quote in the first post, for instance. There's nothing bad or demeaning about it. He's just trying to sound cool.

[td888]

Offcourse my view is biased, this is the director talking. But the same can be said for you, your links are from opponents and Mitchell himself...

The director was creative with the timeline of certain events, I'll give you that. But it doesn't take anything away of the behaviour of Mitchell. He's still a douche, whether he paid for the famous lunch or not (and I believe he didn't, but that doesn't actually matter in my opinion).

Anyway, let's agree to disagree

[ShogunRua]

Offcourse my view is biased, this is the director talking. But the same can be said for you, your links are from opponents and Mitchell himself...

It's not from an "opponent", though; the guy who write the first link (if you read it) is a completely unrelated documentary filmmaker miffed at the irresponsible exaggerations, bias, and lies Seth Gordon, director of "King of Kong", put on screen.

Most of this goes way beyond "creative editing", and isn't reliant on Mitchell's own words;

"
* A core theme is that Billy Mitchell is an asshole, one who doesn’t even deign to spend time in the same location as Steve Wiebe and won’t even come in to eat lunch at the same table as him. In fact, Billy came in and paid for lunch.
* Billy denies Steve the satisfaction of playing one-on-one on Donkey Kong. They’d played Donkey Kong one-on-one a year before the documentary was filmed at a previous championship.
* It seems like Steve Wiebe finally gets a chance to top Billy and that same day, a videotape arrives and Billy tops Wiebe. Steve Wiebe already had the top spot in Donkey Kong, having achieved the record before the documentary started.
* The videotape that Billy sends in has a suspicious glitch. The videotape was a copy and the original was sent in with no glitch.
* Two representatives of Twin Galaxies arcade forced their way into Steve’s garage and looted the machine. Two members of the same social scene as Twin Galaxies and Steve were let into his garage by his grandmother, and asked Steve for permission to photograph the circuit board.
* A number of insiders constantly appraised Billy on what was going on at the competition and took suggestions from him. Multiple times, the conversations being shown from both sides are not the same conversation. "

A lot of this is all corroborated by Walter Day, the Twin Galaxies former head referee featured in the film;

http://forums.twingalaxies.com/viewforu ... ac6dad318c

Pretty hard to argue with the actual facts, none of which Seth Gordon, the director, ever ATTEMPTS addressing in his response.

Anyway, let's agree to disagree

You're free to believe whatever you like, but since it's real people with real reputations involved, understand that the caricature of Mitchell (and Weibe, for that matter) shown in the film has little connection to reality.

[td888]

"* A core theme is that Billy Mitchell is an asshole, one who doesn’t even deign to spend time in the same location as Steve Wiebe and won’t even come in to eat lunch at the same table as him. In fact, Billy came in and paid for lunch.
* Billy denies Steve the satisfaction of playing one-on-one on Donkey Kong. They’d played Donkey Kong one-on-one a year before the documentary was filmed at a previous championship.
* It seems like Steve Wiebe finally gets a chance to top Billy and that same day, a videotape arrives and Billy tops Wiebe. Steve Wiebe already had the top spot in Donkey Kong, having achieved the record before the documentary started.
* The videotape that Billy sends in has a suspicious glitch. The videotape was a copy and the original was sent in with no glitch.
* Two representatives of Twin Galaxies arcade forced their way into Steve’s garage and looted the machine. Two members of the same social scene as Twin Galaxies and Steve were let into his garage by his grandmother, and asked Steve for permission to photograph the circuit board.
* A number of insiders constantly appraised Billy on what was going on at the competition and took suggestions from him. Multiple times, the conversations being shown from both sides are not the same conversation. "

These are not actual facts. That's exactly the problem of this controversy. It's whether you believe these are the actual facts or not.

This is still one man's word against the other (e.g. who paid the lunch...). It's just comes down to who you want to believe. Its' obvious that Mitchell has a group of gamer-groupies who are all in awe of Mitchell's achievements and believe he can do nothing wrong. If Mitchell was so wronged by this documentary, why didn't he speak out? He acknowledged that he didn 't even see the documentary. Why?

I think this is the most telling part of one of your links:
One person who thinks Billy Mitchell should let it slide is Steve Sanders. He's Mitchell's best friend and a skilled "DK" player himself. He dismisses the remaining suspicion of Wiebe's abilities as "black-helicopter" conspiracy theory. But he also laments how the film portrays his friend, a "quality individual" — it leaves his better days on the cutting-room floor. "Is the movie accurate?" Sanders asked. "I would say yes. Is the movie fair? I would say no." He thinks Mitchell should ride the "King of Kong" infamy to some sort of success.

[ShogunRua]

"* A core theme is that Billy Mitchell is an asshole, one who doesn’t even deign to spend time in the same location as Steve Wiebe and won’t even come in to eat lunch at the same table as him. In fact, Billy came in and paid for lunch.
* Billy denies Steve the satisfaction of playing one-on-one on Donkey Kong. They’d played Donkey Kong one-on-one a year before the documentary was filmed at a previous championship.
* It seems like Steve Wiebe finally gets a chance to top Billy and that same day, a videotape arrives and Billy tops Wiebe. Steve Wiebe already had the top spot in Donkey Kong, having achieved the record before the documentary started.
* The videotape that Billy sends in has a suspicious glitch. The videotape was a copy and the original was sent in with no glitch.
* Two representatives of Twin Galaxies arcade forced their way into Steve’s garage and looted the machine. Two members of the same social scene as Twin Galaxies and Steve were let into his garage by his grandmother, and asked Steve for permission to photograph the circuit board.
* A number of insiders constantly appraised Billy on what was going on at the competition and took suggestions from him. Multiple times, the conversations being shown from both sides are not the same conversation. "

These are not actual facts. That's exactly the problem of this controversy. It's whether you believe these are the actual facts or not.

How about being a bit more specific? Which of these do you disagree with, and why?

As mentioned before, the stuff about the records and many of the conversations has been corroborated by Walter Day, the head referee at the time for Twin Galaxies, and numerous other players.

Unless damn near everyone filmed in the documentary is in some massive conspiracy against the director of the film, including credible officials portrayed as fair in the film, what don't you believe in the link above?

What's more likely? A bunch of ordinary guys being in some pointless conspiracy? Or a director adopting Michael Moore tactics, and casting a "villain" and a "hero" in his documentary, since he's too stupid (or assumes his audience is) to present the organic, unbiased story?

I'll go with the latter.

Its' obvious that Mitchell has a group of gamer-groupies who are all in awe of Mitchell's achievements and believe he can do nothing wrong.

Oh, so you DO think it is some massive conspiracy? Aren't you just grasping at straws here? Is it that difficult to accept that the documentary contained numerous falsehoods, as just about everyone involved in it, or with knowledge of the scene has written at length about?

Aren't you ignoring reality in favor of the fantasy story "The King of Kong" presented to you?

One person who thinks Billy Mitchell should let it slide is Steve Sanders. He's Mitchell's best friend and a skilled "DK" player himself. He dismisses the remaining suspicion of Wiebe's abilities as "black-helicopter" conspiracy theory. But he also laments how the film portrays his friend, a "quality individual" — it leaves his better days on the cutting-room floor. "Is the movie accurate?" Sanders asked. "I would say yes. Is the movie fair? I would say no." He thinks Mitchell should ride the "King of Kong" infamy to some sort of success.

You seem to read an awful lot more into quotes than what is actually there. (Look at your first post and outrage at a relatively normal quote from Mitchell)

How does what you pasted above corroborate anything contained in the link

http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/1303

?

Also, no one who had a problem with the documentary and its lies EVER questioned Wiebe's skills. Not a single person.

[td888]

Damn, you are persistent.
------------------------------------------

snip""

These are not actual facts. That's exactly the problem of this controversy. It's whether you believe these are the actual facts or not.

How about being a bit more specific? Which of these do you disagree with, and why?

No, I don't want to. As I said before, it's whether you want to believe these are facts or not. Appearantly you choose to believe them, that's your right. Also, it still doesn't make Mitchell any less of a douche. What's shown in the docu is telling enough, whether certain events happened one after the other or not.

As mentioned before, the stuff about the records and many of the conversations has been corroborated by Walter Day, the head referee at the time for Twin Galaxies, and numerous other players.

Walter is a nice guy but obviously in Mitchell's camp. He will be the last to kick the pillar which is the sole reason of his hobby/work.

Unless damn near everyone filmed in the documentary is in some massive conspiracy against the director of the film, including credible officials portrayed as fair in the film, what don't you believe in the link above? What's more likely? A bunch of ordinary guys being in some pointless conspiracy? Or a director adopting Michael Moore tactics, and casting a "villain" and a "hero" in his documentary, since he's too stupid (or assumes his audience is) to present the organic, unbiased story?
I'll go with the latter.

That's your choice, the fact remains Mitchell is still a douche.

Oh, so you DO think it is some massive conspiracy? Aren't you just grasping at straws here? Is it that difficult to accept that the documentary contained numerous falsehoods, as just about everyone involved in it, or with knowledge of the scene has written at length about?

I never said it's a conspiray.

Aren't you ignoring reality in favor of the fantasy story "The King of Kong" presented to you?

No.

You seem to read an awful lot more into quotes than what is actually there. (Look at your first post and outrage at a relatively normal quote from Mitchell)

I had an outrage a relatively normal quote from Mitchell? Where did I write that?

How does what you pasted above corroborate anything contained in the link
http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/1303
?

You keep referencing the 'numerous other players'. Who are you talking about? You have any other links to prove this?

[ShogunRua]

No, I don't want to. As I said before, it's whether you want to believe these are facts or not. Appearantly you choose to believe them, that's your right. Also, it still doesn't make Mitchell any less of a douche. What's shown in the docu is telling enough, whether certain events happened one after the other or not.

So much for being specific! Did you even read the individual points? You keep clinging to the film's fantasy and believing the documentary is Gospel, but I doubt you've even skimmed through the links I posted.

(Nevermind that the film blatantly plays the Rocky theme when interviewing Wiebe, shows him having fun with his family, while for Mitchell, there is nothing with his wife and daughters, but there IS a song with the lyrics "the villain always wins". Evidently, this is enough to fool people)

Here they are, for everyone else open-minded enough to admit the possibility that a "documentary" can lie

* A core theme is that Billy Mitchell is an asshole, one who doesn’t even deign to spend time in the same location as Steve Wiebe and won’t even come in to eat lunch at the same table as him. In fact, Billy came in and paid for lunch.
* Billy denies Steve the satisfaction of playing one-on-one on Donkey Kong. They’d played Donkey Kong one-on-one a year before the documentary was filmed at a previous championship.
* It seems like Steve Wiebe finally gets a chance to top Billy and that same day, a videotape arrives and Billy tops Wiebe. Steve Wiebe already had the top spot in Donkey Kong, having achieved the record before the documentary started.
* The videotape that Billy sends in has a suspicious glitch. The videotape was a copy and the original was sent in with no glitch.
* Two representatives of Twin Galaxies arcade forced their way into Steve’s garage and looted the machine. Two members of the same social scene as Twin Galaxies and Steve were let into his garage by his grandmother, and asked Steve for permission to photograph the circuit board.
* A number of insiders constantly appraised Billy on what was going on at the competition and took suggestions from him. Multiple times, the conversations being shown from both sides are not the same conversation. "

As mentioned before, the stuff about the records and many of the conversations has been corroborated by Walter Day, the head referee at the time for Twin Galaxies, and numerous other players.

Walter is a nice guy but obviously in Mitchell's camp. He will be the last to kick the pillar which is the sole reason of his hobby/work.

Walter no longer works as a referee for Twin Galaxies. He has absolutely no reason to be "in Mitchell's camp", let alone lie about what happened.

He says that the documentary was pure bullshit. If you go to the link I posted above and actually READ what is there, there are also statements from other players and referees. Are they all "in Mitchell's camp", too?

Wiebe DID have the title. Mitchell DID pay for his dinner and interact with him in a friendly manner. No one broke into anyone's fucking house without permission. They DID play against another, and there are photos of this occurring, as well as a write-up.

You have absolutely no response to any of this, only "...but I still think Mitchell is a douche!"

If you're going to ignore every corroborated, solid fact and argue "it's some massive conspiracy!!!", does that mean you also believe everything you see on TV and in the movies? Are you a big Michael Moore fan, too?

Finally, here's a quote from a slightly more responsible documentary filmmaker;

"I could have “punched up” the story, focused on just one or two people. I’d do this for two reasons: to make the story more “interesting” and because, in some way, I would have contempt for my audience they they couldn’t sustain more than one “story arc” in their heads.

I could have used these people, people who felt burned and abused by Fidonet, and been one more slap in the face for the entertainment of thousands. It’s not hard to do, really. Cut this statement in with another, let them linger too long on a question I just posed so they seem lost… wait for them to say something off camera or indicate they have to use the bathroom and cut it against someone asking tough questions and there we have it, everybody’s a weasel hypocrite who won’t own up to their part in the “mess”. It’s easy. It’s too damn easy."