"Suspiria" (Dario Argento, 1977)

[MmzHrrdb]

I've always given the honour of "greatest horror film ever" to Tobe Hooper's "The Texas Chain Saw Massacre", because that film accomplished something on a budget of only about $100,000 that no multi-million dollar films have ever equalled. But every time I am reminded of this movie, there are parts of me that believe this is the number one finest. I love art in movies, more than anything else, and I seriously believe this is the most artful film ever crafted. Every frame drips with baroque and bloody style, the music is something I want to be played at my funeral, and just hearing it reminds me why I love movies. In my opinion, the third greatest full-length film ever made.

[Pickpocket]

I hate to beat a dead horse but really? Isn't there enough talk about this movie?

[KGB]

The most artistic film ever crafted? Please. I'm not going to go in this discussion again, but I have to make myself clear on this. Although I admit that 'Suspiria' is artsy and that some shots are fantastic - even after the masterful beggining, succeded by a mediocre bizzareunexplainedhorrorfest - the film lacks what all the greatest horror films manage: to be fucking cohesive.
I don't care how cool the murder looks, I want an explanation to how the fuck did hands crawl out of the bathroom window on such a high floor. It's a little detail, I know, but I'm just trying to validate a point - you can't just point out "witch craft" 20 minutes before the credits and call it a day. 'The Wicker Man', for example, was just as retarded as 'Suspiria' was in plot, but it worked it out somehow - progressively, during the entire film, not in the last ten minutes - to make it sound reasonable and make it a great horror film. So does 'Rosemary's Baby', to give another example: the whole film is based on one retarded claim that a woman is pregnant with the anti-christ. And yes, witch-craft is involved. But still, a solid script and smooth direction by Coppola gave at least a cohesive pace and some idiotic explanation to which we can at least say, "You know what, at least you tried. Now give us the good ol' fashioned pregnant woman going insane shit. Man, I love Hollywood".
Suspiria, on the other hand, was something like this:

Argento: I've been looking at some Dali paintings on bad acid.
Argento's dearest friend: So, what's next?
Argento: Well, it inspired me. I guess I'm on my way to direct another bat-shit insane horror film with some really neat graphics and environment.
Argento's dearest friend: What you do best, of course. What's it gonna be about?
Argento: But I just told you, mate.
Argento's dearest friend: No, I mean the plot.
Argento: Oh, that. You conservative film student bastard.
Argento's dearest friend: Well?
Argento: I dunno. Witchcraft, I guess. Now fuck off.

Now, you can say what you want about Suspiria and it is probably all true, but it truly makes no sense. Surely, 'Un Chien Andalou' made no sense, nearly all of Luis Buñuel's films made no sense, but the difference was that Buñuel was all about not making sense - his work policy was basically "Hello. My name is Luis Buñuel. I am insane and I hate the catholic church, the upper class, all conservative, middle-age aristocratic motherfuckers and I probably hate you too. I'm going to make films about that without giving a damn about you opinion, because just to remind you, I'm insane and that's why you will be watching my film. Have fun watching 90 insane minutes of bourgeois adults doing... Whatever, I'll probably put a ghost in and some marginal latin-american country somewhere too. In the end there will be a symbolic shot that only I understand, something about the church, jesus, I love being myself. Also slicing up eyeballs. Enjoy yourself".
Argento tries to make a cohesive film and ends up making a plotless, ridiculous B-list horror flick. Sorry, but that's what it is. If it was intended at first to be a bizzare, unexplained films about supernatural killings and what not, I'll be alright with that.

[MmzHrrdb]

Yay...actual discussion! A rarity in today's times.

The most artistic film ever crafted? Please. I'm not going to go in this discussion again, but I have to make myself clear on this. Although I admit that 'Suspiria' is artsy and that some shots are fantastic - even after the masterful beggining, succeded by a mediocre bizzareunexplainedhorrorfest - the film lacks what all the greatest horror films manage: to be fucking cohesive. I don't care how cool the murder looks, I want an explanation to how the fuck did hands crawl out of the bathroom window on such a high floor. It's a little detail, I know, but I'm just trying to validate a point - you can't just point out "witch craft" 20 minutes before the credits and call it a day. 'The Wicker Man', for example, was just as retarded as 'Suspiria' was in plot, but it worked it out somehow - progressively, during the entire film, not in the last ten minutes - to make it sound reasonable and make it a great horror film. So does 'Rosemary's Baby', to give another example: the whole film is based on one retarded claim that a woman is pregnant with the anti-christ. And yes, witch-craft is involved. But still, a solid script and smooth direction by Coppola gave at least a cohesive pace and some idiotic explanation to which we can at least say, "You know what, at least you tried. Now give us the good ol' fashioned pregnant woman going insane shit. Man, I love Hollywood".

Well, there's nothing in this essay that I can argue about with you and the reason for that is simple - it's your opinion. I personally believe that the only reason movies should ever exist at all is to entertain. I cannot even slightly stand movies which are nothing but information, information, dialogue, more talking, information, heaps of talking, even more dialogue and then lastly, even more information - because where is the fun in that? Movies should exist solely to entertain, enrich and enlighten. Endless facts, talking and whatever - how is that fun? If the film makers don't have fun with their movie then it should not be fun for the audience, and if the filmmakers have fun with their movie even though it's nothing but constant information then that's probably even worse. I'm clearly in the minority with this belief, which I'm fine with, but I can't relate to anyone who would watch a movie just because it's got its facts right. That is the kind of overly critical thinking that is enough to convince me whoever does it, in fact, cannot enjoy movies.

Suspiria, on the other hand, was something like this:

Argento: I've been looking at some Dali paintings on bad acid.
Argento's dearest friend: So, what's next?
Argento: Well, it inspired me. I guess I'm on my way to direct another bat-shit insane horror film with some really neat graphics and environment.
Argento's dearest friend: What you do best, of course. What's it gonna be about?
Argento: But I just told you, mate.
Argento's dearest friend: No, I mean the plot.
Argento: Oh, that. You conservative film student bastard.
Argento's dearest friend: Well?
Argento: I dunno. Witchcraft, I guess. Now fuck off.

You're forgetting that a), you don't know Dario Argento, b) Dario Argento is not stupid, and c) he is Italian so he speaks Italian not English. Even if you don't like him or his movies (which is not only completely reasonable but I actually look down on in pity people who try to convince them they're wrong for thinking it) he deserves respect for making creative horror films and advancing the genre in ways no one else not only couldn't do, but weren't prepared to. If you don't think that deserves respect, which is just plain silly, he at least deserves respect for being one of the main inspirations, direct or indirect, of the new-age horror film.

Now, you can say what you want about Suspiria and it is probably all true, but it truly makes no sense. Surely, 'Un Chien Andalou' made no sense, nearly all of Luis Buñuel's films made no sense, but the difference was that Buñuel was all about not making sense - his work policy was basically "Hello. My name is Luis Buñuel. I am insane and I hate the catholic church, the upper class, all conservative, middle-age aristocratic motherfuckers and I probably hate you too. I'm going to make films about that without giving a damn about you opinion, because just to remind you, I'm insane and that's why you will be watching my film. Have fun watching 90 insane minutes of bourgeois adults doing... Whatever, I'll probably put a ghost in and some marginal latin-american country somewhere too. In the end there will be a symbolic shot that only I understand, something about the church, jesus, I love being myself. Also slicing up eyeballs. Enjoy yourself".
Argento tries to make a cohesive film and ends up making a plotless, ridiculous B-list horror flick. Sorry, but that's what it is. If it was intended at first to be a bizzare, unexplained films about supernatural killings and what not, I'll be alright with that.

How could that not be what it is?

[Pickpocket]

I'm clearly in the minority with this belief

Uh, no. You're def in the majority. That's why "turn your brain off" entertainment films always make the most money.

And KGB, next time you transcribe a fake Dario Argento conversation make it in Italian because then it would be realistic. hahahahahahahaha god that was a weak argument.

[MmzHrrdb]

I'm clearly in the minority with this belief

Uh, no. You're def in the majority. That's why "turn your brain off" entertainment films always make the most money.

As per usual, I can't tell if you're being serious or sarcastic since this is only text, but I'll stick to saying yes, that's what entertainment is - history lessons aren't entertainment. Maybe for nerds, but not for normal people.

And KGB, next time you transcribe a fake Dario Argento conversation make it in Italian because then it would be realistic. hahahahahahahaha god that was a weak argument.

As per usual, I can't tell if you're being serious or sarcastic

[KGB]

You did not understand my argument at all. Also, I admit that my Argneto conversation was retarded, out of place and I pretty much regret posting it, but you get the point. Or you don't actually.
I'm seriously not going to discuss this film any further. What I was trying to say, very briefly, is that Argento tries to do something and fails at it. I don't care how stylistic is your film, there's nothing that can cover your failure. If 'Suspiria' was made in a totally different format and was initially just made to be bizzare horror going on without making sense, like, say, a Jodorovsky film (I really got to check out the guy), then it would have been much better. But it's not.
You get me now?

[VTJoker]

So does 'Rosemary's Baby', to give another example: the whole film is based on one retarded claim that a woman is pregnant with the anti-christ. And yes, witch-craft is involved. But still, a solid script and smooth direction by Coppola gave at least a cohesive pace and some idiotic explanation to which we can at least say, "You know what, at least you tried.

tsk tsk tsk; however, i will agree with you that Polanski did a good job of making an insane story more believable.

[KGB]

So does 'Rosemary's Baby', to give another example: the whole film is based on one retarded claim that a woman is pregnant with the anti-christ. And yes, witch-craft is involved. But still, a solid script and smooth direction by Coppola gave at least a cohesive pace and some idiotic explanation to which we can at least say, "You know what, at least you tried.

tsk tsk tsk; however, i will agree with you that Polanski did a good job of making an insane story more believable.

I have failed in my mission as a film enthusiast. Thank you, people of Criticker, for all the opportunities you gave me. Appearantly I'm just not good enough, will never be. You know what, 'Suspiria' is probably a really, really great film and I just don't deserve seeing it. I guess it's back to the coal mine after all.

[cagedwisdom]

I have no idea what's going on in this thread (maybe it's juts too early in the morning) nor have I actually seen Suspiria but from the images HorrorMaster posted above I have half a mind to proclaim it as genius just from those alone. Any film that looks that stylish is a good film in my book. Should get around to seeing this.