Cops

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ShogunRua
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Re: Cops

Post by ShogunRua »

Dardan, you didn't answer my question. Are you a cop yourself?

Dardan wrote:Things that went wrong:

1) he was alone. 2) At 0:44 the police officer is already yelling (escalating) while he instead, in the case of a mentally disturbed individual, should be calmly and assertively threatening with non-lethal force (e.g. pepperspray) if he doesn't follow instructions. 3) at 1:00 you hear panick in the voice of the police officer and he doesn't hold his ground which subsequently escalates things further. 4) He freaking allows this highly disturbed man to get back into his car.


1) is irrelevant; there won't always be two cops for every one suspect. There simply aren't that many cops out there.

2) you advocate the cop threatening the suspect? Seems to go against your thesis, no?

3) and 4) are even more curious; how do you advocate the officer "holding his ground" and not "allowing this highly disturbed man to get back into his car" without violence? The power of positive thinking?

Incidentally, at his murder trial, the Vietnam veteran, with a derisive laugh, noted that because of how weak and hands-off the officer was, he decided he could get his rifle and gun him down. He then specifically noted that had the officer escalated the violence much earlier, he would have complied.

Dardan wrote:Why is Germany a poor comparison? The line after that (wait two years) only confirms I'm wasting my time with you people.


Because things are going to get very, very ugly there. And soon.

ShogunRua
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Re: Cops

Post by ShogunRua »

Also, Pickpocket destroying and brow-beating hellboy76 and Suture Self in a 1 vs. 2 was amusing to read through. I have known some intelligent liberals who could put forth compelling and convincing arguments for their side. Those two can't.

dardan
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Re: Cops

Post by dardan »

1) is irrelevant; there won't always be two cops for every one suspect. There simply aren't that many cops out there.


We don't seem to have that problem. Just increase taxes on the wealthy, get a single-pay health-care system and reform your retarded justice system and you will be able to afford these things and much more as well.

2) you advocate the cop threatening the suspect? Seems to go against your thesis, no?

3) and 4) are even more curious; how do you advocate the officer "holding his ground" and not "allowing this highly disturbed man to get back into his car" without violence? The power of positive thinking?


Not arguing against use of force. Arguing against disproportional and/or unnecessary use of force.

Are you a cop yourself?


No, but criminology is one of my majors.

hellboy76
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Re: Cops

Post by hellboy76 »

ShogunRua wrote:Also, Pickpocket destroying and brow-beating hellboy76 and Suture Self in a 1 vs. 2 was amusing to read through. I have known some intelligent liberals who could put forth compelling and convincing arguments for their side. Those two can't.



Thanks a lot Pickpocket for brow beating and destroying me. I felt pretty good about my movie site forum postings about Cops until this moment.

Velvet Crowe
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Re: Cops

Post by Velvet Crowe »

Dardan wrote:We don't seem to have that problem. Just increase taxes on the wealthy, get a single-pay health-care system and reform your retarded justice system and you will be able to afford these things and much more as well.


How is that going to make it so that we have two cops for every suspect and case? In fact, why is that even really a necessity?

Not to mention you make that sound far more simpler than it actually is. What, exactly, do you want to reform? I do admit that police are often times given light punishments on their crimes and the court can have a bias for them, but that doesn't mean they necessarily go unpunished and being found guilty can outright ruin their careers{or in the case of Darren Wilson, just being assumed you're guilty is bad enough}.

The court does not make decisions on popular opinion or what is "morally" right, they have a precedent for decision making and also make decisions based on their the law itself. If we had a court where the cry of the people made decisions, our legal system would be a mess.

There is a police manual somewhere on with disturbed individuals and the officer probably broke a lot more protocols from the manual than the ones I referred to.


What manual? Where?

The show is blameworthy because it styled and edited the footage to enhance the cops vs criminal dynamic (e.g. fast editing and tense score.)


Yet it actually doesn't. There is rarely music on the show and at times the show can be pretty boring and slow. At least the show has the decency to indicate that these suspects are innocent until proven guilty. I think you should watch these if you want something that does what you're claiming "Cops" does:

http://www.criticker.com/film/Beverly_Hills_Cop/
http://www.criticker.com/tv/CSI_Crime_S ... stigation/
http://www.criticker.com/film/Cop_Out/

And even then, your idea of "cop vs criminal" dynamic doesn't make much sense to me. It's a problem that the police are opposed to criminal activity? Why?

Blaming the crime rate in America on guns seems rather silly

Good thing I never said that, though for homicides I at least could have: http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firea ... and-death/


Then why did you even mention gun ownership to begin with?

You are talking as if there aren't other countries on this planet that also have people and also have cops, but where, even taking the amount of guns per capita in the US into account, comparatively far less incidents happen with cops. (Even if it was due to the amount of guns per capita I doubt you would then subsequently argue for all guns to be taken in by the government and destroyed.)


I might have slipped and said "crime rate," but it's definitely apparent that you believe that guns are responsible for crimes, the opposite to which was the intention I had when I said that.

That said, that article doesn't elaborate too much on their argument and just uses data collected about various American locations to make a much broader statement than what they have any right to.

Indeed America has more guns, but lets also consider that doesn't mean that there is far less access to guns in other nations:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of ... by_country

As this article states:

"The figures do also not directly represent the number of guns available, since in some countries, such as Israel, a significant number of civilians have government-owned military guns in their possession, which would not be included in the figures below."

So how is it that, in this situation, that gun ownership is blamed for homicides? Clearly there is incentive for these people to obtain guns to begin with, which is why we see more Americans obtain firearms more than the rest of the world who has just as much access to them as the Americans do. There is a correlation, but that doesn't mean it's the causation.

Dardan wrote: Actually, they are extremely well-trained and educated assertive professionals.


And here I can prove you have trouble properly interpreting my argument.

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