"American Sniper"

[lisa-]

if the word 'evil' means 'does really bad things', then sure, all terrorists are evil. including chris kyle.

[Stewball]

So, what, police can't assume someone is a criminal just because they're committing a crime like rape, murder, pedophilia, genocide etc; and we need to step back and try to understand them? Sometimes things are grey, but other times they're black and white. If you assume subjective morality, people can and will take advantage of it with all the spite and beheadings they can muster.

What? I'm talking about movies and storytelling, not morality and justice.

This movie is about historical morality and justice, not just a story, but even if it was.....

Understanding why someone does something doesn't mean that you condone it. If anything, the only reason to try to understand reasons behind tragedies and evil actions is to try to prevent them from reoccurring.

"Understanding" evil is all to often just an excuse for inaction and appeasement. And there is often no understanding to be had since you're dealing with fanatical basket cases. As Alfred put it so succinctly, "Some people just want to watch the world burn."

Moral relativism is a fairly bankrupt, horrific ideology even in its milder applications.

But here you have its apotheosis; condoning terrorism and mass murder.

Damn, you can put stuff really well when you put your mind to it. But when you're dealing with relativists (read Truth is whatever I want it to be and justifies whatever I want it to), you're dealing with a Teflon(R) coated brick wall, capable of withstanding an infinite number of head butts and to which nothing will stick, including the Truth, your brains, or any ideas therein.

I thought this was a board about movies. If you want to talk about nothing but politics, then go back to whatever politics board the Big Bad Liberals chased you away from.

Turns out movies that challenge us and make us think are very often about those taboo in "polite society" subjects, politics and religion. You come off sounding like sour grapes, and/or would rather watch the latest teen-slasher-vampire-zombie-twilight-check-your-brains-at-the-door gore-fest--or Michael Moore.

if the word 'evil' means 'does really bad things', then sure, all terrorists are evil. including chris kyle.

Are you a pacifist? He saved American lives by killing those in the act of attacking them. How is that terrorism?

[Suture Self]

if the word 'evil' means 'does really bad things', then sure, all terrorists are evil. including chris kyle.

Are you a pacifist? He saved American lives by killing those in the act of attacking them. How is that terrorism?

Well, except for the many, many moments where he solely served as judge, jury, and executioner, and anytime he was questioned about his kills (which happened frequently enough to be concerned, btw), he would say shit like, and I quote: “I don’t shoot people with Korans,” Kyle retorted to an Army investigator when he was accused of killing an Iraqi civilian. “I’d like to, but I don’t.”

I mean, that alone should, at the very least, raise your suspicions a little.

Of course, that's not to say he was a terrorist, or whatever, I'm just trying to show that it's not anywhere near as simple as saying all he did was save American lives. There's more to the story than that. Read about the guy.

[mattorama12]

While you all bicker over irrelevant and tired issues like moral relativism, American exceptionalism, and PTSD, you're ignoring perhaps the most important part of the movie--this hilariously fake baby:

[bowfinger]

Invade a country half way around the world.

Kill thousands.

And then label its people evil terrorists because they are defending themselves by trying to kill the invaders any which way they can.

Wow.

PS. Don't forget to brainwash your own folk so that they will support you unconditionally. Anyone want an Oscar for this?

[TheSaberfool]

Invade a country half way around the world.

Kill thousands.

And then label its people evil terrorists because they are defending themselves by trying to kill the invaders any which way they can.

Wow.

PS. Don't forget to brainwash your own folk so that they will support you unconditionally. Anyone want an Oscar for this?

Save your moral relativist ramblings for the drum circle, you terrorist loving communist.

[Stewball]

if the word 'evil' means 'does really bad things', then sure, all terrorists are evil. including chris kyle.

Are you a pacifist? He saved American lives by killing those in the act of attacking them. How is that terrorism?

Well, except for the many, many moments where he solely served as judge, jury, and executioner, and anytime he was questioned about his kills (which happened frequently enough to be concerned, btw), he would say shit like, and I quote: “I don’t shoot people with Korans,” Kyle retorted to an Army investigator when he was accused of killing an Iraqi civilian. “I’d like to, but I don’t.”

I mean, that alone should, at the very least, raise your suspicions a little.

Of course, that's not to say he was a terrorist, or whatever, I'm just trying to show that it's not anywhere near as simple as saying all he did was save American lives. There's more to the story than that. Read about the guy.

We all think, and even say, a lot of shit; and if we had Thought Police we'd all be in jail. Your quote about what Kyle would like to do and what he does points out that he knew where to draw the line. And the Korans quip simply means he doesn't shoot them because if they're carrying a Koran they're not carrying a gun--which has a double meaning because he's also saying that he's not out to kill Muslims because of their religion, but because of their militaristic terrorism. All enemies are Muslim in this case, but not all Muslims are the enemy.

We need people to be our police and soldiers, but the type of personality required, especially to be good at what they do, is distasteful to many of us. But distasteful is one thing, while evil is something entirely different. War is anarchy, and those who fight it are often sucked into the easy path of senseless destruction or outright sadism. The American soldier over the years, has earned an excellent reputation for not falling into that trap and for maintaining their humanity under very trying circumstances. I've neither seen nor heard anything to indicate that Kyle is an exception. In fact his guilt at the choices he'd been force to make is an excellent indication that the motivation behind his actions was more benevolent than most. But benevolence does NOT require appeasement or forgiveness in the absence of repentance of those who have done and do evil, or pacifism.

[Stewball]

While you all bicker over irrelevant and tired issues like moral relativism, American exceptionalism, and PTSD, you're ignoring perhaps the most important part of the movie--this hilariously fake baby

(Insert assorted face-palm graphics here.)

Invade a country half way around the world.

Kill thousands.

And then label its people evil terrorists because they are defending themselves by trying to kill the invaders any which way they can.

Wow.

Militant Islam is global as 911 demonstrated, which also showed that it's better to fight the war there than here. And we only label the militants as evil terrorists. Wow indeed. I consider your post the equivalent of paying the Jizya and with a smile on your face and a submissive heart as required by Sharia Law. I think your attitude is derived from your guilt at your fear of defending yourself. Let Joe do it, while I spit in his face so if they win I can say I did it--and I have the freedom of not having to worry if we win. Or are you praying to Mecca and going for the the 70 virgins jackpot? When you get there you're gonna find out why they're still virgins.

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."--Quran (9:29)

[lisa-]

if the word 'evil' means 'does really bad things', then sure, all terrorists are evil. including chris kyle.

Are you a pacifist? He saved American lives by killing those in the act of attacking them. How is that terrorism?

i specifically found a quote where he talked about targeting innocent civilians for a political goal. that is terrorism.

https://ceinquiry.wordpress.com/2013/02 ... e-snipers/

[Stewball]

if the word 'evil' means 'does really bad things', then sure, all terrorists are evil. including chris kyle.

Are you a pacifist? He saved American lives by killing those in the act of attacking them. How is that terrorism?

i specifically found a quote where he talked about targeting innocent civilians for a political goal. that is terrorism.

https://ceinquiry.wordpress.com/2013/02 ... e-snipers/

He wasn't targeting "innocent" civilians. You're obviously quoting what Kyle said in the book and which was included in the movie out of context. The quote conforms to the context in the book and movie. "Unlike The New Republic, though, Eastwood puts the quote in the correct context. Kyle is talking about no-go zones; areas that were officially evacuated. The legitimate strategy behind this was that only the enemy (evil savage terrorists) would remain in officially evacuated areas." The worst of it is that asshole at the New Republic had to know that without a doubt. The leftist hordes never ever check up on what they're told, and if it falls in their lap, they just don a blindfold. Religious blind faith is rampant on both sides, the Left just applies it to big government.

The enemy doesn't wear uniforms as combatants are required to do under the Geneva convention. Not only does it provide them better cover, but they and their leftist cohorts in the West get to claim that we're shooting "innocent" civilians, even if he is (was) carrying an AK-47 before they take the picture of his dead body for our 6 o'clock news.